The CBB :: View topic - Reg Entwhistle

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#1: Reg Entwhistle - for or against? Author: Mona, Location: Hertfordshire

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 7:44 am
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Reading some of the threads, I've got the impression that Reg Entwhistle is not a particularly well loved character, and I'm curious about why that is.

It's quite a while since I read the last few Swiss books, and I don't remember disliking Reg as a character. What I didn't like was the idea of Len getting engaged to him before going to Uni. Not because he was Reg, just because she was too young to be getting engaged to someone that much older than herself.

Then I read The Chalet Girls Grow Up, and I found the way he was portrayed utterly believeable based on how he was in EBD's books. And reading Lexi's Echoes of the Past, it's that later version of Reg who's making me hope that Len finds someone else.

So, what does anyone else think of Reg as a character?

#2: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:01 am
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I don't particularly object to Reg as a person generally - he works hard and has a good sense of humour - but I don't like the way that (IMO - I know that this is an area that everyone seems to have strong feelings about!) he seems to pressurise Len into getting engaged when she doesn't quite seem ready for it. Also, he's one of the very few Northerners who get to feature prominently in any part of the series!

Len says herself that she'll "be engaged if nothing else will satisfy Reg" or words to that effect, and both Con and Madge make remarks about Reg being determined to get "what he wants". Personally I'd be very concerned if a friend/relative said that they were getting engaged because their partner wouldn't settle for anything less, which is how that sounds, rather than because they really wanted to. There's also a remark about him waiting around and trying to make sure that no-one else took his place, which sounds as if he was ready to have a right go at any other bloke who looked twice at Len! I don't see why he had to speak "strongly" to Jack either - he evidently felt that Len wasn't ready for a relationship at that point, so why not just wait until she was and then speak to her about it, as Jack did with Joey?

I appreciate that EBD doesn't do romance well and that a lot of these things are just due to an unfortunate choice of wording - the best example being her comment about how he likes all the triplets but Len was "his favourite" (how romantic Laughing

!) but I'm still not keen on the Reg-Len thing! I just feel that Len was pushed into getting engaged too soon. Joey doesn't help either - she more or less accuses poor Len of messing Reg about.

#3: Author: Lexi, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:22 am
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I've deliberately tried to leave the Leg/Ren situation ambiguous in my drabble because I've always liked Reg as a character and I haven't worked out whether I want them to end up together or not yet! I think it would be perfectly natural for Len to spread her wings a little bit while she was away at university but that doesn't mean she would necessarily change her mind about Reg. Perhaps I'm not very good at writing him as a sympathetic character Embarassed

I think my ideas of Reg are coloured by the fact that I read the Swiss books when I was in my early teens and at that point, I would have loved to have been chased by a handsome doctor, so I was a bit jealous of Len.

Like Alison says, if EBD had been able to write romance a little better, we might have a very different view of the relationship. I don't see Len as being pushed into the engagement, she's a strong enough character and is quite capable of saying no. It's not like she was suddenly married off by the end of the book - there's still room for things to change and develop between them.

Perhaps I'm just biased in Reg's favour but I always interpreted the conversation between Joey and Len about "getting engaged if nothing else will satisfy him" as a very awkwardly expressed way of saying that she did want to get engaged to him, she was just anxious that she would still get to go to Oxford.

#4: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:20 am
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Lexi, that's what I think too. I don't think Len had any intention of being forced into engagement, I think it was a bit of a jokey comment.

Personally, I have always liked Reg. There was a very good drabble, which seems to have vanished off the face of the earth, called 'A Pharmacist on the Gornetz Platz' which dealt with the last term of the triplets at the CS and made Reg very sympathetic, plus dealing with the REg/Len relationship much better than EBD did (though actually I think she did most of it quite well *don't kill me*). I'd recommend it to anyone who doesn't like Reg as it is a nice tak on him, and anyone who does, as he is very nice in it!

#5: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:32 am
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I don't mind Len ending up with Reg, but I don't like the engaged or nothing idea. I would have liked to have seen Len meet Reg in England while she was at Oxford, perhaps at a conference, go on a couple of dates, ie dinner or the theatre, so that they can connect away from school/san/Maynards.

#6: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 11:46 am
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Mel wrote:

I don't mind Len ending up with Reg, but I don't like the engaged or nothing idea. I would have liked to have seen Len meet Reg in England while she was at Oxford, perhaps at a conference, go on a couple of dates, ie dinner or the theatre, so that they can connect away from school/san/Maynards.

::Sends bunny treats to Mel::

#7: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:32 pm
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I don't entirely dislike Reg. I do dislike the way he staked his claim on Len by speaking to Jack when she was only sixteen. I also dislike him wishing Len would grow up. She was only 17-18 and still at school at the time - she wasn't supposed to be grown up. He fell for a girl ten years his junior, then expected her to act as if she was his own age.

I also dislike the way Len was made to feel she had to make a decision at once. Why couldn't she say she liked Reg, but would rather not be engaged yet? It's a big decision for any 18 year old girl, especially one as sheltered and inexperienced as Len. I think Jack and Jo should have told Reg to back off a bit.

#8: Author: Alex, Location: Cambs, UK

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:34 pm
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Loryat wrote:

There was a very good drabble, which seems to have vanished off the face of the earth, called 'A Pharmacist on the Gornetz Platz' which dealt with the last term of the triplets at the CS and made Reg very sympathetic, plus dealing with the REg/Len relationship much better than EBD did (though actually I think she did most of it quite well *don't kill me*). I'd recommend it to anyone who doesn't like Reg as it is a nice tak on him, and anyone who does, as he is very nice in it!

Thanks!

One of the reasons behind that drabble was that I wanted to reconcile the idea that Joey and Jack wouldn't let their daughter marry a creep with the fact that we hardly see Reg and when we do he does the most rubbish proposal ever (and I have plans for that too...).

Exams finish on 1st June and I do intend to write some more (finish it) this summer.

#9: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:16 pm
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What we see of Reg isn't flattering - he's intent on getting Len, and getting her before she heads off to university and meets other men who aren't related to her or foster sibs. He starts staking his claim when she's a naive, sheltered 16 and he's 26. He might be okay but just a little over eager, or he might turn out to be a creepy/controlling bastard who wants what he wants and will do whatever he has to do to get it.

From Len's side, I don't think she should be getting engaged to anyone at that point - friend of the family, soul mate or whatever. She's 17 years old, naive, sheltered, and has been deliberately kept young and old fashioned by her parents. At the same time, she's extremely contientious and responsible, and very Catholic.

I could see her suppressing doubts about the relationship while she's at university, or avoiding making friends with other men, and not questioning her situation, because she's engaged to Reg, and has no experience with making adult friendships away from her parents. I could also see her going through with the marriage because, after all, she's made a promise, and doesn't want to hurt Reg, or disappoint her parents, or be dishounourable. And, being very Catholic, once she's married she'd stick with it regardless - no divorce or separation for her, even if she's unhappy.

I think a more responsible thing on her parent's part would be to forbid her to make a formal commitment until she's, say, 19. Let her go to university with no promises made, and see what happens.

Basically, Len has spent her entire life being the good daughter of her family, and she's slated to quickly become a good wife, without much time to figure out who Len is when she isn't being responsible to someone else. Joey getting married young was less worrying partly because she's naturally more selfish, and would push more for what she wants or needs.

#10: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:31 pm
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jennifer wrote:

Joey getting married young was less worrying partly because she's naturally more selfish, and would push more for what she wants or needs.

And Jack was far more willing to allow Jo to grow up in her own time. By the time they got engaged she'd been out of school a couple of years, was a published novelist, and she'd had the trip to India.

#11: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 3:13 pm
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And Joey had much more experience of men of her age and above who weren't related to her - via the family and friends and husbands of her school mates (Gottfried, Freidal, Donal, Eugen, Kurt etc.), and has pretty close observational experience of her peers forming romatic relationships, getting engaged and marrying (Juliet and Donal, Marie and Eugen, Wanda, Bernie, Gisela, Bette, Frieda etc.) and having children / darning socks / putting up with a husband who isn't there much (Madge and Jem) - a lot of the plus and minus points of a relationship.

Len doesn't have any of that.

Edited because I posted hastily...

#12: Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:08 pm
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I just have to put in a bit here. The whole way EBD brought Reg to prominence in Rescue, packed him off to boarding school and then forgot him for 10 years grated for me. It made Jack and Joey look very overbearing and rather condescending that they thought he was 'too good' for village life.

All the other wards & waifs & strays got much more attention in later books, even Biddy (and her 'rescue' was the weakest story EBD ever cooked up IMHO).

I've tried to address it in Village Boy and I'll get back to it ASAP because if it is to be at all believable, there must be more back story than EBD gave it.

#13: Re: Reg Entwhistle - for or against? Author: joyclark,

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:41 pm
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The only thing I don't like about Reg is his name. Apart from that, I think he's gorgeous . . .

#14: Author: wheelchairprincess, Location: Oxfordshire, UK

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:38 pm
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I like Reg as a character but think he was badly written. Village Boy has had a big influence there though. And I do think Joey and Jack were snobbish in how they treated him.

#15: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:25 pm
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It rather annoys me when Joey starts gossiping to Grizel and to Mollie Mackenzie (née Maynard) about how Reg fancies Len, when Len herself doesn't know about it! Not to mention going on about Reg having "quite a nice little private income" which I don't suppose he'd've appreciated being discussed with people he didn't even know. I appreciate that Grizel's a very old friend and that Mollie is Len's aunt, but even so.

#16: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:05 pm
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I hate the name Reg too - it reminds me of that awful old man in Coronation Street Evil or Very Mad

Why couldn't she call him something more handsome? Even the full Reginald would have been better.

Against all my logic and reasoning, I am totally FOR Reg. Poor EBD - she was so scared of actually describing a full length romance at all, that when she came to do it I have to give her some leeway and credit for tackling the subject at all. And she left it so late in the series that by the time we get to the Swiss books we are gasping for an engagement that isn't glossed over completely. So I half-shut my eyes, skim-read, fill in or cut out bits I'm not mad on, and tell myself that it's a gorgeous and worthy love story Laughing

#17: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:12 am
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Quote:
I hate the name Reg too - it reminds me of that awful old man in Coronation Street Evil Why couldn't she call him something more handsome?

Isn't it funny what preconceptions we bring to names. Reg for me connotes the dark, handsome type -- someone out of a movie with heroic British pilots. No idea why.
*has never seen Coronation Street*

Although the idea of Reg "waiting for" Len from such an early date is off-putting, I can usually gloss over it as a fairly common motif in earlier literature. If I ignore that, there's a lot about him to like. He clearly has the brains and determination to make it as a doctor against the odds of his upbringing, he doesn't expect Len to give up her college course as would have been all too common at the time, and I like the way that he and Len seem so comfortable together by the end of Prefects.
_________________
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#18: Author: RoseCloke, Location: In my pretty box-like room

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:27 am
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Having just read the quotes that Jennifer highlighted in her excellent spreadsheets and lists (thanks Jennifer! Smile

), I'm still not sure which side I stand on.

My first reaction after reading the quotes was to feel horribly sorry for Len; all that talk going on behind her back that she had no idea about. I also didn't like the idea that Reg was going to 'make sure' that no other man even came near her. From what I've read of Len's character I can imagine that going down completely the wrong way if she ever got hold of it. It is also rather creepy to think of a man of twenty six waiting for a child of sixteen to grow up so that he could marry her. But then, I suppose we're all looking at it from a very modern viewpoint - EBD's readers, possibly even EBD herself (although I'm willing to be corrected on that), would have had a more romanticised view of marriage, both from a religious and social standpoint.

In Reg's defence, once she realises she's in love with him (although is she doing it because he's the only man she's ever known and she thinks she should be with him, or is it just EBD's lack of romance-writing skills?) then they seem to be quite happy together and the protectiveness seems to be toned down someone. Plus he gets kudos points for wanting her to finish her degree - ragrdless of whether her parents had put their feet down on the subject (which they had).

#19: Author: Karry, Location: Stoke on Trent

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:44 am
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Kathy_S said

Quote:

Reg for me connotes the dark, handsome type -- someone out of a movie with heroic British pilots.

I can't see this with Reg, but Reggie, on the other hand sounds far more dashing. I think this is a little like Bert as opposed to Bertie (which was how George VI was known in the "family" before coming to the throne).

#20: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:23 pm
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Karry wrote:

"Reggie", to me, sounds like someone out of Bertie Wooster! (There's another "Bertie" for you - "-ie" names like that were very fashionable in the late 20s/early 30s among a certain set).

Back on topic, I've always liked Reg Entwhistle, and think his apparent stalkerishness is only due to EBD's total inability to write love scenes!

#21: Author: Tan, Location: London via Newcastle Australia

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:55 pm
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Kathy_S wrote:

Isn't it funny what preconceptions we bring to names. Reg for me connotes the dark, handsome type -- someone out of a movie with heroic British pilots. No idea why.
*has never seen Coronation Street*

My dad's name is Reg (full name is obviously Reginald). It was a pretty common name in the 1920's and 1930's. There was an actor called Reginald Owen (which btw is my dad's name!!) who did play a lot of heroic type parts ...

I think part of the reason that Reg produces such strong reactions is that we don't really get to see him spend any time with Len so we don't have a lot of insight into their relationship.

Having said that, I do disagree with the engagement and 'staking his claim'. I would have like to see Len be able to experience life at Uni first (good for her for still insisting on that).

#22: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:06 pm
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Quote:

*has never seen Coronation Street*

He's here

http://www.corrie.net/profiles/characters/holdsworth_reg.html

#23: Author: Squirrel, Location: St-Andrews or Dunfermline

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:23 pm
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I'm afraid that the name 'Reginald' brings half remembered images of Reginald Perrin - and was it the usless inventions society, or something like that?

#24: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:01 pm
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Alison H wrote:

He's here

http://www.corrie.net/profiles/characters/holdsworth_reg.html

That page is so similiar to Jennifer's wonderful character guide that for a moment I thought Reg Holdsworth had actually appeared in the CS! Shocked

#25: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:04 pm
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*sends plot bunnies scurrying to Róisín's house*

#26: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:13 pm
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Well, the surgery - the one that Gail Platt's the receptionist at - does seem to be remarkably short of doctors since Matt Ramsden (Joshua Peacock's natural father) left ...

Sorry for going off topic Embarassed

#27: Author: white_hart, Location: Oxford

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:37 pm
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Quote:

"Reggie", to me, sounds like someone out of Bertie Wooster!

Do we not find out in one of the Woosters that Jeeves's first name is Reggie?

#28: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:50 pm
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Well, it's Reginald. And Bingley, the valet that Bertie hires when Jeeves leaves his service when he takes up the banjolele, calls him Reggie. Smile

*reads too much J&W*

#29: Author: Bee, Location: Canberra, Australia

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 3:06 am
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How is Reg pronounced? Is it with a hard "g", like in egg, or more like the "j" sound, like in ridge? Either way, I'm not particularly fond of the name... but then, I don't like a lot of the family names!

As for Reg himself, it never occurred to me just how creepy it could be perceived until I started reading posts on the CBB. I wasn't keen on the idea of Len being engaged before she'd been at university, and I think Jo was a bit pushy. After all, Len really needs the chance to live her own life, free from commitments and responsibility!

At the same time, I admit I loved the scenes between Reg and Len. Maybe I'm just a sucker for any romantic scenes in the books, as there are so few! The girls never seem to have boyfriends (except for Joan Baker, who was an outcast)... anyway, I really did think that Len liked Reg a lot, and that they had a really nice relationship with each other.

I try to push the age differences and stalker-like tendencies to the back of my mind....

#30: Author: Karry, Location: Stoke on Trent

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:58 am
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reg is pronounced like *redge*. I have heard Reginald said *Rejinald*

#31: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:21 am
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Isn't Rex Willoughby in Seven Scamps actually Reginald? Somehow, the name Rex is less awful (or has less awful Reg Holdsworth connotations for me, anyway) than Reg is....

I think the Entwhistle (or however you spell it!) bit has a part to play, too. It's like when EBD originally chose it, she went for a stereotypically Northern name for the lad to contrast with everyone else in Rescue. And then he was stuck with it - the name that sticks out, the name that's different from everyone else. It's verging on a class / comedy northerner thing....

For me, it seems a Lancashire name, because of the place Entwistle - between Bolton and Blackburn, and very close to where my SLOC comes from (Bromley Cross, for those who know it).

#32: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:06 pm
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I have always thought Entwhistle was quite pretty Smile

. I also like the name Rex but it always seems too dog related for a human name.

I think Reg's stalkerishness comes from bad writing. Plus I don't think Reg was physically going to prevent Len from having other boy friends, just that he didn't want to have it happen, if you know what I mean. The scenes between Reg and Len, I actually think are quite good. They are matey like Jo and Jack, but also there's that edge where Len is aware of Reg's feelings (and her own) but doesn't know how to handle them, which I think was well done.

#33: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:57 pm
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I always think of Entwistle as a Lancashire name for the same reason, Caroline! (I have a pretty picture of Bromley Cross as a link in my LJ somewhere because when I said I'd been to The Last Drop I confused everyone!). And it's quite a common name in Lancashire. Considering that EBD was from the NE herself, it always surprises me how few Notherners there are at the CS.

I'm afraid I don't like the name Reg, though. But then, although I like the name Helena, I don't like Len (as a girl's name) either!

#34: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 5:35 pm
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And 'Len Entwistle' is really awkward to say. 'Helena Entwistle' isn't much better.

#35: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:45 pm
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Alison H wrote:

I always think of Entwistle as a Lancashire name for the same reason, Caroline! (I have a pretty picture of Bromley Cross as a link in my LJ somewhere because when I said I'd been to The Last Drop I confused everyone!). And it's quite a common name in Lancashire. Considering that EBD was from the NE herself, it always surprises me how few Notherners there are at the CS.

I'm afraid I don't like the name Reg, though. But then, although I like the name Helena, I don't like Len (as a girl's name) either!

Ahhh, the Last Drop - it's about a hundred yards up the road from my F-i-L's house. Former home of Bromlea and Jonkers Bookshop, where I bought my first ever HB chalets. My, but they were an expensive shop. No wonder they moved Down South.

EBD did have a few people who lived in the North - think of Gay and Jacynth - they travel to the school from Newcastle in Gay from China, and Jacynth had expected to go to Newcastle High School at one point - and Tom and Rosalie meet up at York station in CS and Rosalie. The Rutherfords come from Northumberland, too, and I'm sure there must be others.

But it's still a small number, and none of them are exactly your classic Northerners are they Confused

#36: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:25 pm
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JayB wrote:

And 'Len Entwistle' is really awkward to say. 'Helena Entwistle' isn't much better.

Perhaps she'd use her first name and become Mrs Mary Entwhistle. After all, she wouldn't need to differentiate herself from her triplet sisters once she was married.

#37: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:08 pm
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KB wrote:

JayB wrote:

And 'Len Entwistle' is really awkward to say. 'Helena Entwistle' isn't much better.

Perhaps she'd use her first name and become Mrs Mary Entwhistle. After all, she wouldn't need to differentiate herself from her triplet sisters once she was married.

Good idea. 'Mary Entwistle' sounds much better - has quite a nice ring to it, in fact.

#38: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:44 pm
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Well, she could always keep her maiden name for professional purposes, so she's Miss (or, in our day, Ms) Len Maynard for work, and Mrs Reginald Entwhistle for social purposes.

I have a friend whose last name is "Entwistle" (no "h", she is very fond of pointing out), and as I like her, I tend to like the name, like you always do like names if you know a nice one called it.

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