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Married to the School?
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4719
Author:  Emma A [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Married to the School?
It's occurred to me, having read some of the archived discussions about the staff and their long tenures at the school, that it's almost as though each of them are "married" to the school. The fact that barely anyone leaves, except for a more conventional marriage, and that Miss Slater's defection as seen almost as a betrayal by her colleagues, did EBD think that to teach at the Chalet School was the summit of all teaching life, more of a "better to serve in Heaven than reign in Hell" sort of thing?

Of course, teachers did stay for long periods at schools in the past - my old school had been founded in 1917, and when I joined in 1984, they were only on their fourth headmistress (and she had only been appointed that year). But to have almost all of the staff staying seems very odd, and quite atypical.

Any thoughts?
Author:  Clare [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think it was more common in the past for teachers to stay a long time at their schools. When my mum started teaching in the 70s, it was a case of "dead mens shoes" unless the teacher had moved on for promotion or personal reasons. She was at her first school for 20 years. In the last 15 years it has become more accepted that teachers will stay 4/5 years in a school on average.

In the case of women, at the time of EBD, the vast majority would have stopped working once they were married. If a woman prefered a single life, then teaching was a respectable job for her to be in.
Author:  Alison H [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd think that at the time at which EBD was writing it was much more common than it is now for people in any job to stay there long term. A lot of people would have joined a place when they left school (or university/college) and stayed there until they retired. In some ways it must have been really nice working with the same people all the time (unless they were horrible!), and going on works outings together and so on.

Presumably the CS was such a wonderful place to work that everyone was too happy to leave unless they were either getting married or "needed at home" :lol: . Even when the school closed down in Exile several members of staff just seem to've hung around waiting to see if it would reopen, instead of looking for other jobs.

Seriously, I'd think that a lot of them saw the school as a home as well as a workplace, as they lived "in" and - even when the school was in Britain - almost none of them had relatives or personal friends living nearby, and many of them were "best friends" with colleagues. Leaving all that behind would have been a big wrench, especially as a lot of teachers in the later books were Old Girls who had little experience of other sorts of schools.

There doesn't seem to have been much ambition amongst the staff - maybe EBD thought it wasn't ladylike to be ambitious? We never hear of anyone having a burning ambition to become head of department, or of any real rivalries in the staff room.
Author:  JustJen [ Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
There doesn't seem to have been much ambition amongst the staff - maybe EBD thought it wasn't ladylike to be ambitious? We never hear of anyone having a burning ambition to become head of department, or of any real rivalries in the staff room.


What about Pam Slater? She left the Chalet School to become the head of the math department and wanted a shot at becoming the Head Mistress.
Author:  Lesley [ Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes but Pam was held up to ridicule by the other staff for these, wholly laudable, ambitions.
Author:  liberty [ Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:32 am ]
Post subject: 
It was quite common then. At the school where I am we are increasingly becoming a young staff. However, that's only because a lot of people are retiring and many of them have been here since they started work.

The other thing with Chalet School staff is it wouldn't only be a job they had to find. The school provided them with a place to live as well. If they moved they'd have to sort out getting a house as well. I wouldn;t mind betting that, as they had food and board, they didn't get paid that much so money may have become an issue.

I can understand it as well. I could easily see myself staying in my current school (which is my first) until I retire. I like the staff here and the girls. I know the stuff we teach and if I move I would have to learn a whole new range if History. I've no desire to be promoted so there's not really any point.
Author:  jennifer [ Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:39 am ]
Post subject: 
You also have to factor in that post-war there was a deficit of men in the age range of the mistresses. So the chances of getting married were lower than they would otherwise be, and some mistresses had fiances or husbands die in the war.
Author:  Sunglass [ Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:50 am ]
Post subject: 
I suppose it might have become quite difficult to leave. I have a friend who teaches at a boarding school in the countryside, where, barring emergencies, your periods of responsibility outside the classroom are mapped out weeks in advance, so all staff can arrange to go away for weekends, spend free nights in the city etc etc - and all do. But the CS is so isolated in virtually all its locations, that there's almost nowhere to go a lot of the time, mistresses appear to have little free time during term, and very few of them have homes apart from the school - it must be hard to have any kind of life apart from the CS.

Plus the CS is very wrapped up in its own affairs, understandably enough, I suppose, for an isolated community - it can feel a bit like a cult, though. You get to hear endless repetitions of the school myths and legends, meet the school founding family and resident deity, Joey etc etc. Your friends are your colleagues/old girls, your gossip is all about old girls and their babies, your treats are a trip across the garden fence to Freudesheim. You are probably a CS old girl yourself.

I can imagine that it might have been very hard for an old girl turned mistress to decide to leave, because it would involve leaving an entire universe not just a job. Taking a job at say an English day school, with no supervisorial responsibilities after 4, where you had to find yourself a flat and make your own meals, friends and amusements, where the staffroom talk might be about current affairs etc etc would have been a bit of a shock for the people who were absolutely institutionalised as CS mistresses.

I was wondering too whether someone who'd only ever taught at a single Swiss boarding school (with a very particular ethos, and whose curriculum would inevitably be disrupted by having to teach in two foreign languages in which many of the girls aren't fluent) would necessarily make you very much in demand if you were looking for a teaching job in the UK in the later years of the CS?
Author:  Mrs Redboots [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Certainly many of the staff who joined the school I was at either roughly t the same time as me (1963), or a little earlier stayed on until they retired in the 1990s!

I asked one of them once why, and she said that it was a good job, she wasn't interested in a headship, and she didn't see the need to move! Having worked myself in the same job for 25 years, I do rather sympathise.
Author:  Róisín [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
The way that you have used the phrase 'married to the school' reminds me of nuns and their connection to their order/the church/Jesus. In a lot of ways the set-up is v. similar: a female dominated community with a sparse few authorititive men on the edges; the need for training into the peculiar way that the school works; the way that the school takes in wards and orphans, and that these more often than not end up as senior members ie mistresses. Also, although the women can leave whenever they like, they also cannot return in the same capacity (ie teacher) if they marry.
Author:  Alison H [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's a really interesting way of looking at things. And I think that Hilda (quite apart from the "Abbess" nickname!) is very much a Reverend Mother type figure.

I wish I hadn't had that last thought: I'm going to be humming Climb Ev'ry Mountain for the rest of the evening now :lol: .
Author:  Clare [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Alison H wrote:
That's a really interesting way of looking at things. And I think that Hilda (quite apart from the "Abbess" nickname!) is very much a Reverend Mother type figure.

I wish I hadn't had that last thought: I'm going to be humming Climb Ev'ry Mountain for the rest of the evening now :lol: .


Maybe that's the answer to all those "behind closed doors" heart-to-hearts that Hilda has and the pupil comes out totally reformed? Hilda turns to the window and sings, until the pupil sees the error of their ways?

:D
Author:  RoseCloke [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I was wondering too whether someone who'd only ever taught at a single Swiss boarding school ... would necessarily make you very much in demand if you were looking for a teaching job in the UK in the later years of the CS?


I think Sunglass raises a really interesting point. Reading the books, I always thought that when EBD introduces standardised testing, such as the Matric, it sits awkwardly amongst the other narrative. I can easily imagine even a regular CS girl, who had not even taught at the school, finding it as hard to settle into another environment (married environment excepted) as many of the 'difficult' CS girls, such as Joan Sandys, did settling into the CS.

This also links into the idea of the 'closed' community and staying put, partly through vocation, but mainly through ease.

I can't get the image of a singing Hilda out of my head... :D[/quote]
Author:  jennifer [ Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:32 am ]
Post subject: 
There's also the women who didn't particularly want to get married (to a man) - in the early 20th century, there weren't a whole lot of options for for a woman who wasn't interested in a husband. She could stay at home with her parents, if they could afford it and were willing to support her. Or she could get a job, and there weren't many acceptable options for a middle-class young woman - teaching, nursing, secretarial work.
Author:  Becky-MA student [ Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Can anyone think of any teachers who are married, apart from when one steps in when there's an emergency? I'm not sure I can...

I think especially in CS early years, it would have been hard to have a family and work, without dishwashers, etc. Especially with all the after-school hobbies there are!
Author:  JayB [ Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Herr Laubach is, in Tyrol (or maybe it's Herr Anserl) but of course the men don't have the household responsibilities and don't have such a heavy teaching load because not everyone takes art and music.

Miss Denny is the nearest equivalent to a married woman working at the school - she lives out, and looks after Mr Denny and runs their household (presumably with help, if only part time) as well as teaching.

Before reliable contraception, and indeed when using contraception was frowned upon by many people, not all of them Catholics, it was of course more difficult for a married woman to work, especially somewhere like the CS. A head wouldn't want to take on a married woman as a teacher if she was likely to have to leave half way through the year because she was pregnant.
Author:  Aishwarya [ Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Frau Mieders was a widow, I think. Or was she teaching when her husband was alive as well?
Author:  Alison H [ Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think Frau Mieders started teaching until after she was widowed.
Author:  claire [ Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
She says at one point that she came to the school as a broken hearted young widow
Author:  Miriam [ Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Biddy o'Ryan carries on teaching for a couple of terms after she is married, with no mention of any emergency circumstances. It just seems to be convenient for both her and Miss Annersley. She does resign when she pregnant, and no one expects her to come back.

I think Simone carries on teaching for a while after she is married, though WW2 could be called an emergency in it's own right.
Author:  Theresa [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
In the (early?) 80's in Australia (or Queensland, at least) women were still required to leave the public service when they married (not sure when this ended, or if it continued in certain sectors longer than others, but my mother had to quit Child Services when she married). If they continued to work they were expected to take up something in a bank or as a secretary--no sense wasting taxes giving them specialised training when they were only going to get pregnant and quit--so it wasn't an attitude that was strictly confined to the early 20th century, as out-dated as it may seem now.

There's also a huge proportion of teaching staff here that gets a job in one place and never leaves, or moves around once or twice if they want something in a particular area or religious denomination. Every single teacher I've ever had, primary and secondary, (seriously) is still working in the school they taught me at, or was up to their retirement, and most had been there long before I came along. I think this is more pronounced in the Catholic schools I was taught in, but my mother is now teaching in the state system and, as most teaching jobs here are on 6 or 12-month contract, if you can get a permanent job in the city you take it and you never ever leave!
Author:  MJKB [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Married to the School?
The way that you have used the phrase 'married to the school' reminds me of nuns and their connection to their order/the church/Jesus. In a lot of ways the set-up is v. similar: a female dominated community with a sparse few authorititive men on the edges; the need for training into the peculiar way that the school works; the way that the school takes in wards and orphans, and that these more often than not end up as senior members ie mistresses. (Roisin).
The CS always struck me in this way too. My first post was in a small, private convent school, which I absolutely loved. There were two principals, both nuns, one for the kindergarten and one for the Junior School. While I was really fond of both of them they were, in no small measure, gentle tyrants. (Pardon the oxymoron). Their whole world was wrapped up in their pupils and their devotion was one hundred per cent.
Unfortunately, they expected the same amount of dedication from their staff. Because we were outside the state system the pay was pretty dire, but we were made to feel that teaching in their school was sufficient compensation for our poverty! Sadly, it had to close as the Order decided that it could no longer support social exclusion.
Years later, when my daughter was starting school I would have given anything to have sent her there. There was such a happy,caring atmosphere about the place, bullying was rare, and the children loved coming to school. Many of the pupils' parents and grandparents had attended the school so it had a real family feeling to it.
Just talking about it now I feel a wave of nostalgia.
Author:  catlover [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Married to the School?
many of my primary school teachers are still at my old school, the ones who are not would have been old enough to retire, and i left that school 19 or 20 years ago.

the cs is such a closed community in many ways and has a kind of family atmosphere i think, plus being so out of the way it would have been harder to get british teachers so maybe some stayed because of loyalty, and others because it provided an, rare in those days, opportunity for travel outside of the uk, i cannot see a teachers salary being enough to allow them to travel in any other way, unless they had rich parents or something.
Author:  Alison H [ Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Married to the School?
Just out of interest, does anyone know how much (ignoring the fact that the CS was based abroad for most of the time) a teacher at a boarding school in CS times would have earned relative to a teacher at a private day school who would also have had to pay day-to-day living costs?

Obviously working at a place where you lived in would have been beneficial to people who would otherwise have had to live with relatives with whom they might not have got on or else would've had to spend a lot of money on rent or else perhaps struggled as single women to get mortgages, but on the downside they got very little free time. Just wondering how "good" a job teaching at the CS would have been.
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