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Loose ends
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Author:  Nightwing [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:32 am ]
Post subject:  Loose ends
I was rereading Challenge the other day and noticed something which I hadn't before. Early in the book, when Evelyn is spending time with Jane, it says that she comes to view Jane as her own private property, and that later on it causes trouble. But it never does cause trouble and the whole set-up seems to be forgotten.

There are several other examples of loose ends in various books - Prof. Richardson's mysterious box, for example! I was wondering how other people find them - are there any loose ends that irritate you particularly? Do you think that they are simply examples of bad editing, or do you think that they are plotlines that EBD meant to pursue in future books and didn't? Or are you just glad to have drabble material? :D
Author:  Elle [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Nightwing wrote:

There are several other examples of loose ends in various books - Prof. Richardson's mysterious box, for example!


Yes! This one irritates the hell out of me! I want to know what was in there, why it was so secetive and what Jack Maynard does with it. It bugs me everytime I read that book.

The other one that annoys me is the reference to Getrude Becker who we are told returns to the Chalet School a wiser girl, but is in fact never heard of again bar a passing reference in the Chalet School at War
Author:  Alison H [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
I think she just forgot about them and the editors didn't notice. Gisela and Gottfried are meant to move to the Platz at one point and never do, and the same with Elisaveta. And at one of the pantomimes everyone is surprised when someone walks in, but we never find out who it is! And then at one point Tom Gay has some news for everyone but we never find out what ...

There are "loose beginnings" as well, for lack of a better expression :lol: . I was always convinced that Biddy O'Ryan going to Australia (she returns in Carola) had been edited out of my paperbacks, but I gather it isn't in any of the hardbacks either!
Author:  Tor [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
there are quite a few in the swiss books, aren't there?!

Perhaps Prof. Richardson's mysterious box contained a black hole that mysteriously sucked plot lines away into oblivion!
Author:  JayB [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
There's an incident in Oberland, when the girls are at a concert. Miss Wilson makes a remark about the singer, and
Quote:
A white-haired lady sitting behind overheard, and leaned forward.
“Pardon, madame, but Marie-Claire de Fontevraud sings from the heart. She was betrothed at seventeen to a young man who had been wounded during the war. It was thought that his wound had healed, but only three months before the wedding it flared up again and he died—on the wedding day. He had always loved her beautiful voice and, when she could think again, she returned to the Conservatoire at Paris and went on with her lessons. Now, for the present, she sings. Some day, though, she will sing no longer at concerts.”


Are we supposed to know who the white-haired lady and Marie-Claire were? Is this a story, like Gay's, that EBD never wrote - or wrote and never published? What will Marie-Claire do when she no longer sings at concerts?

(And why does the white-haired lady reveal all this personal information to a complete stranger, in public where anyone else could overhear?)
Author:  JS [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
You could read that as quite sinister, JayB. Maybe the white-haired lady was planning to kidnap her a la Stephen King's Misery and keep her in a gilded cage to sing for her and her alone??
Author:  Kate [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
I was wondering if EBD based Marie-Claire on a real person and wanted to interject her story in there.
Author:  MJKB [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Alison said:
"And then at one point Tom Gay has some news for everyone but we never find out what ."
I couldn't wait to get the next in the series when I read this. I was so disappointed when it was never mentioned again. I took it to mean that she was on the point of announcing her engagement and I was dying to find out who her intended was.
Another event I awaited with bated breath was the birth of quads. Joey mentions it at least 3 times that I can recall, the latest in Reunion (Ithink). The reader is led to believe (the reader being me) that the omnicient Joey could predict the number of babies she would conceive and their sex. I ws expecting another two boys and two girls to finish off her 'long' family.
Slightly off point, did Joey ever go the Belsornia or did the war intervene?
Author:  JayB [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Quote:
The reader is led to believe (the reader being me) that the omnicient Joey could predict the number of babies she would conceive and their sex.

I think at one point a character (I forget who) is said to be 'hoping for twins' and lo and behold, twins appear! But I suppose when she said it the pregnancy might have been far enough along that they might have had a pretty good idea that it was twins.

Jo never went to Belsornia as a lady in waiting - that was decided before she left school. She said she couldn't leave Madge with all the children. She says somewhere that she's either going, or has been, to Elisaveta's wedding, I can't recall which book that comes in.

And on that subject, Veta must have been married very young, mustn't she? No more than seventeen or eighteen. She's two years younger than Joey, and was quite young for her age, I think.
Author:  Alison H [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
She was chief bridesmaid at Elisaveta's wedding. I wish we saw that in the books - I love royal weddings :D .
Author:  Cat C [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Quote:
I think at one point a character (I forget who) is said to be 'hoping for twins' and lo and behold, twins appear!


It think it was when she was expecting Phil and Geoff - something about 'we're expecting a new arrival in July, so that will make us 10, although I may as tell you Jack and I are hoping for twins so that would be 11.'

I wasn't aware that 'hoping' for a multiple birth had any correlation with it actually occuring, but perhaps there is a difference in early symptoms between single babies and multiple ones, and Joey would have had enough experience of each to have a good idea if so.

Back to the topic, you don't have to look very far for loose ends, even in School At, I'm pretty sure that although EBD says there are four people outside listening to the effect of sherbert in the wash basins, you only ever find out the names of three of them!
Author:  Emily [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Alison H wrote:
I think she just forgot about them and the editors didn't notice. Gisela and Gottfried are meant to move to the Platz at one point and never do, and the same with Elisaveta. And at one of the pantomimes everyone is surprised when someone walks in, but we never find out who it is!


I HATE this one, it makes my toenails itch with curiosity.
Author:  Ruth M [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Quote:
I wasn't aware that 'hoping' for a multiple birth had any correlation with it actually occuring, but perhaps there is a difference in early symptoms between single babies and multiple ones, and Joey would have had enough experience of each to have a good idea if so.


According to my mum (so may not be universal) she was both a lot sicker and a lot bigger earlier when she had my sister and I compared to when my older brother was born. She had a fair guess she was expecting twins before it was confirmed.
Author:  Nightwing [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
MJKB wrote:
Another event I awaited with bated breath was the birth of quads. Joey mentions it at least 3 times that I can recall, the latest in Reunion (Ithink). The reader is led to believe (the reader being me) that the omnicient Joey could predict the number of babies she would conceive and their sex.


:D :D :D

I have to admit, I always assumed Joey was just teasing when she talked about it - but I do recall her saying more seriously to someone that her and Jack are beginning to think they shouldn't have any more children, as the cost of raising them is rising (especially as, if they'd had any more boys there would have been school fees, etc!)

I wonder if this was why Len got engaged so hurriedly - EBD liked writing about long families and needed to marry someone else off so that she could start writing about another one :D :D :D
Author:  Emma A [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Nightwing wrote:
I wonder if this was why Len got engaged so hurriedly - EBD liked writing about long families and needed to marry someone else off so that she could start writing about another one :D :D :D

The problem is that I don't think EBD wrote her "long family" particularly realistically. None of the children seem to argue, or accuse their parents of being unfair, or are rebellious - everything is harmonious, and the only acrimony we see is Margot's jealousy - and that's because she wants to keep Len and Con to herself, not because she wishes she could never see them again!

I have only a sister, and most of the time as children we got on well together, but we did have rows from time to time. With more siblings, surely the potential for friction would be higher? Even given the time EBD was writing, the Maynard children's consistent and continual affection for their brothers and sisters doesn't ring true!
Author:  Alison H [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
I agree - I get on really well with my sister but as kids we squabbled the way most siblings do.

The sibling harmony - apart from a bit of argiung in the car on the way to Austria in Future! - seems to be an issue that's specific to the Maynards (and to the Tyrolean girls who are too well-trained to squabble!). We see Sybil being resentful of Josette, and there's a suggestion that Maeve and Maurice find it difficult to adapt to having older siblings bossing them around after years of being on their own with their parents. The Die Rosen nursery is very realistic, with Rix and Sybil squabbling, Sybil doing her "you're only a cousin" piece, etc. We're also told about Beth Chester resenting Barbara when Barbara was first born, and Jessica Wayne being jealous of her mother's closeness to Rosamund.

I suppose it's because the Maynards were meant to be the perfect family. Realistically Len would have got pretty fed up of being expected to be the responsible one all the time, and at least one of the Maynards would have objected when the three Richardsons moved into their already crowded house. We do see a bit of resentment about Melanie being invited on what was meant to be a family holiday, but it's soon overcome.
Author:  JB [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
I also assumed that the story of Biddy's journey to Australia was explained in a book I didn't own as Carola was one of the first paperbacks I read and I didn't read the Plas Howells books for a number of years.

I'm puzzled by Phil's illnesses - we hear about the mastoid operation in Adrienne but we're told about her polio (?) in an anecdotal way which made me think i'd missed something in Summer Term.

And Gisela and Gottfried who are often mentioned but never actually appear. There are more but i'll stop now. :)
Author:  MJKB [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
"We do see a bit of resentment about Melanie being invited on what was meant to be a family holiday, but it's soon overcome." A quote from Mel.

That was Joey at her most disingenouous.! First she consults the triplets about taking yet another waif on holidays with them. Then when Margot gives her honest opinion she is ticked off for being selfish. Why couldn't she be honest and tell them that she was taking Melanie whether they' liked it or not. At least it would have been honest.
Author:  Lesley [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
I agree - that was actually a fairly rotten case of emotional blackmail by Joey. The Triplets had been given the chance to refuse but knew that, if they did, they would be feeling guilty the entire time. Hardy perfect parenting - yet, while in itself that's not a problem - the fact is it is shown as perfect parenting - the reader is expected to side with Joey. It would have been nicer had it been shown as an example of poor parenting - but Joey is never shown as that once they get to Switzerland. :roll:
Author:  Cat C [ Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
I tend to think that the painting of the Maynard family dynamics (parenting, how the siblings get on etc) is the clearest illustration of the way the characterisation is just not as good once the series gets to Switzerland.

I get far less sense of living, breathing characters than I do when the books were in Austria, or even in the other places before they got to Switzerland, when it all got a bit production-line.

This also seems to be reflected (maybe?) in the drabbles here - people are far more willing to take liberties with the Swiss part of the series than the Tyrolian part... although there are exceptions.
Author:  MJKB [ Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
There were some great books among the Guernsey/Wales period, imho. Exile, At War, Highland Twins, Carola (in spite of all the EBDisms), to name a few. I rather liked Island and Peggy too, and I absolutely adored Rescue. I always loved the books which featured staff relations and day to day domestic life at the time. I agree that the Swiss books are, by and large, far weaker in plot and structure than the early ones, though I'm still glad they were written, with the possible exception of Prefects, however.
Author:  macyrose [ Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
In Althea, Joey refers to having quads again and Hilda asks her if she is really adding to her family. Jo answers "wait and see" and it's not mentioned again so we never find out if Jo is going for or already pregnant with number twelve or not.
Author:  Alison H [ Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Cat C wrote:
I get far less sense of living, breathing characters than I do when the books were in Austria, or even in the other places before they got to Switzerland, when it all got a bit production-line.



I like the British books, and I like some of the Swiss books, but I have to say that I feel that I know Gisela, Frieda, Marie, Simone, Margia, Evvy, Corney etc far better than I know people like Hilary Bennet, Lesley Bethune and Lesley Malcolm even though they appear in far fewer books, and I don't feel that I know "The Crew" or even some of Jack Lambert's gang at all.
Author:  MJKB [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Perhaps Joey waited until Len got preganant with triplets to have her quads. Picture it, Len sitting up in bed, proudly showing off her 3 daughters, and word arrives that Joey has just given birth to quads, two boys and two girls. What a triumph for the 'wholesale' Joey, upstaging everyone she knows, including her own daughter!
Author:  Tor [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
Quote:
Picture it, Len sitting up in bed, proudly showing off her 3 daughters, and word arrives that Joey has just given birth to quads, two boys and two girls.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Love it! However, as I am re-reading Joey and Co in Tirol, I am currently liking adult Joey. I particularly like how she she listens to Madge at the beginning, clearly getting angrier and angrier, with just a terse 'oh really' sort of comment, and then explodes in Mikes defense. Such a realistic way for a Mother to respond - protective and also furious at someone else interfering with the upbringing.

A loose end that currently bugs me (but it may be a paper-back cut) is in Wins the Trick, where Jo Scott decides she needs to tackle Joan Baker on her attitude/behaviour, as it may jeopardize her job prospects. EBD makes a point of mentioning it, they start talking on the walk, but then Win interferes and it is all dropped. And never picked up again. And not even a reference to Jo thinking she'll have to find another time and place. Not anywhere near as irritating as Tom Gay's news, or the mysterious stranger at the play, but I wanted to hear that chat!
Author:  MJKB [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose ends
"Not anywhere near as irritating as Tom Gay's news, or the mysterious stranger at the play, but I wanted to hear that chat!" A quote from Tor.

I absolutley agree. Could someone hazard a guess at who the mysterious stranger is. As for Tom Gay's news, surely the most likely is an engagement ? I wonder if poor Elinor had genuine memory loss?
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