The CBB :: View topic - Infectious diseases

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#1: Infectious diseases Author: Tiffany, Location: Is this a duck I see behind me?

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:49 pm
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I've just been reading Gay from China, and I am struck anew by the traditional "adults cannot catch infectious diseases" poser.

Gay catches German Measles, and so does Grandma. Grandma's grandchildren get it from her. The whole school, and particularly Jacynth and Gillian, are bunged into strict quarantine. Joey and Simone, who have young children, drop all their teaching work and run for the hills.

All the other staff rally round and spend time with the girls, including the diseased ones. Jack Maynard comes and doctors them.

Questions:

a) given that adults can catch the childhood illnesses, and that most of them are more serious the older the casualty is, why are the staff immune? Have they all had it before?

b) Can you carry the disease without having it? Can you really catch it from papers/rooms/etc?

c) Why is it fine for Jack to wallow knee-deep in germs and then go home to his babies, but not for Jo to?

d) Can you sit public exams while in quarantine? Would the exam papers carry the plague?

#2: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:32 pm
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Not answering any specific questions, and my memory is terrible at the moment, but I'm sure in one the Swiss books (maybe Trials) the CS ends up short staffed because some staff were not immune to whatever virus/infection/cold swept the school.

Teachers do develop immunity over the years - they are most likely to fall ill in their first 2/3 years in a new school as germs differ according to area (apparently - this is what I've learnt while teaching through staff room gossip!). I would presume doctors were the same? Although teachers/doctors could still carry the infection...

ETA: I had to have a pupil quarantined in an exam. She had Impetigo and I had to a) find an empty classroom b) find a member of staff who was willing to sit in the room with her and c) get her brought into school for the duration of the exam before sending her straight home. It is possible, it just involves a lot of organising!!

#3: Author: kramerkaren,

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:40 pm
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Most of the childhood illnesses of the time had already been had by the grownups, thus they would all be immune to all the viral etc things. Even in CS - diseases have a history of repeating themselves.
One more thing I can add - that at our library as kids if you had an infectious disease you had to report it when you brought your books back and they under went a fumigation of sorts before they were released back to the library, so I guess exam papers would be as bad as "typhoid Mary" to EBD....

#4: Author: ness, Location: LANCS,ENGLAND

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:29 pm
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There are 2 reasons that the teachers/adults would be less likely to get the infection

1) Yes they probably would have had it already and have their own immunity

2) There are 2 groups of vulnerabilty to infectious diseases, the young and the old maybe explaining why grandma got it. This maybe because of immunity or for other reasons which we don't yet understand.

Most of these illnesses are airborne and therefore papers etc would not be infected you need direct contact with an infectious person. however people are often at their most contagious before they show symptoms, which is the reason for quarantine.

You do get resistant to most infections as a doctor after the first couple of years. I picked up every virus going in my first year as a paediatrician now I usually get colds when I'm on holiday! I expect Jack didn't have as much contact with the children as Joey anyway. The very young children would definitely be most at risk.

Sorry to go on, one of my pet topics. Children really did die of infectious diseases prior to immunisation and that is why everyone should be immunised.

#5: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:27 am
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I suspect doctors had to deal with practicality, as well. If they were quarantined after every visit with a contagious person, they'd never get to do any doctoring. I would guess they would probably change and wash, either just before leaving work, or immediately after getting home, before interacting with their family.

For the staff - for things like chickenpox and measles, they would probably have had it as children already, and so be pretty much immune. In any event, if the school was in quarantine, then someone had to stay with the kids. You couldn't leave them on their own. For Joey and Simone, they had babies, and couldn't leave the children at home all day - the kids were staying with them at the school.

I'm not sure how possibly it is to pass a disease by papers etc, but I think it would depend on how long the germs can exist outside the body.

From a quarantine situation there should be a distinction between isolation and quarantine. The school would be quarantined, to contain the spread of the disease, as they had been exposed to infectious people. The people who had gotten sick would be in isolation, separated from the exposed but not sick people.

For exams, I think part of the issue would be bringing in the exam people, as you'd be asking non medical, non exposed people to be coming in and out of a quarantined area.

#6: Author: Maeve, Location: Romania

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:42 am
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Clare said:

Quote:

Not answering any specific questions, and my memory is terrible at the moment, but I'm sure in one the Swiss books (maybe Trials) the CS ends up short staffed because some staff were not immune to whatever virus/infection/cold swept the school.

Yes, that was in Trials, when the school was stricken with scarlet fever. Only three of the staff

Quote:

...knew that they had had it in their extreme youth. Miss Ferrars acknowledged to a sharp attack when she was a Kindergarten baby; and Miss Andrews and Miss Wilmot had also been victims. The rest were sure they had never met it or else had to find out from home.

And sure enough, a bunch of them come down with it as well.

#7: Author: JS, Location: Perthshire

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:10 am
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As a by the by, the Scottish Government has recently published a public health bill which updates quarantine arrangements - and makes the Chalet School look positively liberal (enforced quarantine, without explanation or appeal, anyone?). But then I suppose EBD didn't have to deal with SARS or ebola.

#8: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:56 am
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Just heard on the news that there've been outbreaks of measles in both Switzerland and Austria and that with people from all over the place set to descend on both countries for Euro 2008 in June the authorities are panicking and advising people to be immunised ASAP.

Sounds like a job for the San ... Wink

#9: Author: Lottie, Location: Humphrey's Corner

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:38 am
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jennifer wrote:

I suspect doctors had to deal with practicality, as well. If they were quarantined after every visit with a contagious person, they'd never get to do any doctoring. I would guess they would probably change and wash, either just before leaving work, or immediately after getting home, before interacting with their family.

I think Dr. Carr told Katy to keep the children away from him until he had changed his coat when he was seeing some patients with an infectious illness in What Katy Did.

jennifer wrote:

For exams, I think part of the issue would be bringing in the exam people, as you'd be asking non medical, non exposed people to be coming in and out of a quarantined area.

I don't think there would have been any exam people to bring in - the mistresses would have been responsible for all the invigilation.

#10: Author: Shander, Location: New Scotland in Latin

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:11 pm
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We've had a couple of major mumps outbreaks out here in Eastern Canada. Apparently my whole generation wasn't properly imunised. They figured everyone older than us had had it, and everyone younger had had the proper doses, but all the people in my generation had to bring in proof of reimmunization.
On a side note I have great sympathey for children now, I had no idea just how much the mumps vaccine hurt.

#11: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:47 pm
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I was immunised against TB at school, but I believe that mass vaccinations stopped later in the 1990s. TB's now on the rise in this country again.

#12: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:11 pm
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And the WHO stopped smallpox vaccinations, saying it had been eradicated, and I still don't know if it has.

#13: Author: Sugar, Location: second star to the right!

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:12 pm
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As far as I'm aware TB is still an immunisation in the UK - the rise has come from immigrants from countries where there is no policy.

#14: Author: Fi, Location: Somerset

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:18 pm
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Most Counties in the UK give BCG (TB vac) to every child of 14 at school with the parents' permission. North Somerset is one of the few that don't vaccinate every child. I also didn't receive a rubella vac as a teenager. I had to be vaccinated for both of these plus Hep B. when I started Uni as I am a health professional working in a high risk environment.

#15: Author: claire, Location: South Wales

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:47 pm
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They stopped TB for a few years in the UK (I'm 29 and missed it- had to have it when I started my training) but I think they restarted it.

#16: Author: Becky, Location: Newport, South Wales, UK

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:55 pm
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They must've restarted it pretty soon after, as I'm 28 and I had the TB jab at school - I think I was 13 or 14. It might be that different areas had different policies though. I had a combined rubella and mumps jab at school at 12 too.

The only reason I know that is because I had to look up my records for going to India last year.

#17: Author: Jenefer, Location: London

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:35 pm
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Most children are not seriously ill with Rubella. They have a rash all over and a slight fever. Jacynth and some of the others seemed to spend ages in the San which seemed unrealistic to me.
The big problem is with pregnant women as it can result in severe damage to the unborn child.

#18: Author: evelyn38, Location: Rochester Kent

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:44 pm
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Both my daughters (aged 19 & 17) were vaccinated against TB, but my son who is 14, will not be, as they have stopped doing it routinely (North Kent). Instead we had a questionaire to fill in, to identify whether he was at risk of contact - eg relatives in India etc.

Interestingly the advice we had recently when a local health professional had TB was that the vaccination was only of limited effect, and that you had to have at least 8 hours close contact with someone with TB and even then you would only have a very minimal risk of developing the disease.

#19: Author: Rosie, Location: Land of Three-Quarters Sky

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:47 pm
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Shander wrote:

We've had a couple of major mumps outbreaks out here in Eastern Canada. Apparently my whole generation wasn't properly imunised. They figured everyone older than us had had it, and everyone younger had had the proper doses, but all the people in my generation had to bring in proof of reimmunization.
On a side note I have great sympathey for children now, I had no idea just how much the mumps vaccine hurt.

One of our university campuses was shut in my first year because of a mumps outbreak. It was the Sports Science and Education department, and I think it was felt wise not to have them rocking up to schools all over North Wales with the germ!

They held a big drive to vaccinate as many students as poss, as apparently a lot haven't had it. I wasn't sure so went anyway. They gave me a sweetie...

#20: Author: clair,

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:46 pm
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What annoys me about the whole adult immunity thing is how come I've had chicken pox 3 times?! Yet when Frieda has it they all take it for granted that no-one will have it a second time

#21: Author: Amanda M, Location: Wakefield

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:43 pm
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Going back to the TB vaccine - they don't vaccinate for TB (at least in Yorkshire). When Patrick was born last August they did give him the BCG because SLOC worked in a respiratory ward and there was some concern that it might have been passed on.

#22: Author: roversgirl, Location: France

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:11 pm
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Intresting thread... Having been an English assistant for 7 months, I am proof [constantly sick during that period] that teachers can catch a lot of things in their first couple of years of teaching.

Re. immunisations - I've never been vaccinated against TB and do not know of anyone within at least ten eyars of my age - I'm 20 - who has had it. In NZ, you get a MMR [Measles, Mumps, Rubella] jab at 11 and tetanus not long after.

As for the chickenpox, my sister has had chickenpox three times and shingles twice!

Just wondering what the situation regarding meningitis[menigicoccol disease] is in other countries? They had a massive drive on it in NZ about 3 years ago and everybody under the age of 19 got a course of 3 free vaccines but it was very controversial...

#23: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:13 am
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I got MMR around age 11 or so, and also a tetanus, typhoid and and something else at around the same time.

Incidentally, tetanus is only good for ten years, so you need to get booster shots periodically.

We didn't get TB or chickenpox, and I didn't get it then, but Hepatitus A/B was standard when my younger brother went through school,

For meningitis, I think they immunize only when there is an outbreak of it.

There was a flurry of objection to the new HPV vaccine in the US, under the logic that immunizing girls against a sexually transmitted disease will make them more promiscuous.

#24: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:47 am
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I live in an area which was one of the "trial areas" for the HPV vaccine in the UK - it was only trialled here last year - , and there was a bit of a fuss about it in certain quarters here, for the same reason. You'd think everyone'd realise that trying to prevent people from getting cancer is actually a good thing Rolling Eyes

, but a few people objected.

I don't think vaccinations are ever mentioned in the CS books, except for the smallpox vaccinations in Theodora ... unless I'm forgetting things which is very possible!

#25: Author: abbeybufo, Location: in a world of her own

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:31 am
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In this area of Hampshire [UK] babies get 3 lots of Diptheria/Tetanus/Polio/Pertussis[whooping cough] forget exactly at what age & interval - 8 weeks possibly for the first one - Polio has only fairly recently been added to this cocktail; it used to be an oral vaccine. Somewhere about the same time as one of these they get a HiB and a MenC.

At 13 months they are called for the MMR[Measles, Mumps, Rubella], for which advice these days is to have a booster as well, but can't remember when that booster is offered, it may be quite close to the first, but 2 doses of the vaccine are certainly recommended and twenty-somethings who had the first but not the booster as it wasn't offered in their day are being recommended to have it, not least for the mumps protection.

At about 4 they have a 'preschool booster', which certainly includes the dip, tet & pertussis, and poss polio as I don't think the vaccine is available here now without it [Revaxis] and poss Men C again

Some schools still offer BCG for TB at around 12/13 but mostly in the inner city areas of Southampton, it isn't routinely done in Romsey schools now.

At 14/15 they are called for the 'school leaving booster' [you can tell how long this terminology has been around - children start preschool at 3 now, and leave at 16+!] which is the DTPP again, and maybe Men C if not done at 4

This should mean that people approach adulthood with 5 doses of tetanus in their system, which for most purposes is deemed to be sufficient, it would only be advisable to top that up if you had a 'tetanus-prone injury' more than 10 years after the last tetanus jab you'd had.

Naturally for some elderly adults - like me! who never had a tetanus jab until age 30+ there is still some catch-up going on, which generally comes to light when checking what is necessary for travel to 'foreign parts' Laughing

HPV is certainly talked about but can't remember if we're offering that routinely at the moment

Sorry to go on at such length Embarassed

#26: Author: Joan the Dwarf, Location: Er, where am I?

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:55 am
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Smallpox is certainly eradicated - I think it's so far the only infection disease that's been wiped out completely. I can't remember if they went ahead with destroying the remaining lab. cultures a couple of years ago - if they did, then it's gone for good.

I managed to miss the BCG when I was a kid, so when I moved to this area of London (high levels of TB) I went to be vaccinated. They stuck the Heif test in me, and made the discovery that I already had immunity - which meant that when I was very young I was exposed to sufficient amounts of TB to produce immunisation Shocked

#27: Author: Smile :), Location: Location? What's a location?

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:03 am
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Quote:

Teachers do develop immunity over the years - they are most likely to fall ill in their first 2/3 years in a new school as germs differ according to area (apparently - this is what I've learnt while teaching through staff room gossip!). I would presume doctors were the same? Although teachers/doctors could still carry the infection...

Yeah my Gran always found that. She worked in a speech therapy department and found that people were off sick a lot for the first year or two and then not really afterwards. She only figured out why it was when someone who had grown up in that area and done all her training in that hospital joined the departement. She never really got ill and my gran realised that this was because she had had all the bugs already.

Not sure about the rest of the UK but certainly in Scotland everybody used to get the BCG at 12 or 13 and I did but I was one of the last years to get it. Know they only give it to people who are deemed "high risk groups" meaning that I am imunised but my sister isn't.

#28: Author: Rosalin, Location: Swansea

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:08 am
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The thing about only getting Chickenpox once always confused me as I know people who have had it multiple times, and that was while we were still at school. On the other hand I've never met anyone who has had measles more than once, but I've read books where people who have previously had measles are kept away from infection in case they have it again. The case that comes to mind is Maid in EJO's Maid of the Abbey but I think I've come across the idea in other books as well. Can you get measles more than once?

#29: Author: champagnedrinker,

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:59 am
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Re. Doctors & quarantine etc.,
Did any one see last weekend's Casualty 1907? One of the trainee nurses got Scarlet Fever & the Dr. had to deliver her to the door of the isolation ward, but couldn't then go in. (Though he did later, when she was very ill. Though he didn't sing "The Red Sarafan", she recovered)

re. Smallpox; I thought that the CDC (Centre for Disease Control) in the US (guess I should have put "center"!), and possibly somewhere in Russia still have some samples. I've an idea they were going to destroy them, but then changed their minds, just in case. (Not sure what the "case" might have been, mind). The disease hasn't been "in the wild" since the mid-70s. From memory, there was a case in the late 70s when someone got it from lab stocks. I think they died.

re. The CS & diseases. I never did quite understand their methods of quarantining students. Surely if they separated out those who'd had it from those who hadn't (while thought who'd got it were in the san), what difference would it have made? If you couldn't get it again (presumably the rationale for separating them), then it wouldn't matter if someone else got it ... did they have to keep "resetting the clock" as it were everytime someone else got it.
I seem to recall some instances when they did (e.g. one of Joey's boys getting whatever on the last day), and yet other times where they didn't seem to. (Can't think of which book now).

re. Exams & disease. Today, (and then, come to think of it), I'd have thought that you'd have missed the exam as you wouldn't have performed at your best when sick. And, I'd agree with the point that you they wouldn't have brought in examiners, they'd have used mistresses - especially if the candidates were in quarantine.

#30: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:30 am
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Does anyone else have this inkling that, possibly, there are more batches of smallpox in government laboratories all over the world?

*Cynical, Moi? Wink

#31: Author: JS, Location: Perthshire

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:53 am
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Quote:

HPV is certainly talked about but can't remember if we're offering that routinely at the moment

The HPV vaccine will be given routinely from the start of the next school year, in Scotland at least it will be for S2 (12-year-olds) from September. There will also be a catch-up programme over three years to capture older schoolgirls. In Scotland this also starts this September but I think it's a year later for England.

There's been some debate about giving it to those 18-25 but this isn't deemed cost-effective.

#32: Author: roversgirl, Location: France

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:21 pm
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I don't remember which exams were affected in Trials [i.e. which level] but I do remember that in Wins the Trick Mrs Everett is employed as invigilator for the public exams as mistresses cannot inviligate them.

#33: Author: Tor, Location: London

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:07 pm
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Now i am most definitely NOT an expert, but I *think* chickenpox is part of the herpes virus group, isn't it? And that group is particularly rubbish for immunisation. I had never heard of an effective chickenpox vaccine, and that is presumably also why people get it more than once. It can also lay dormant for a while, and reappear e.g. as shingles, in much the same way that cold sores are reoccurring. I always found that when you got a chickenpox outbreak, you'd get mum's queuing up to expose their kids at an early age, when they are more likely to get it mildly, in the hope that some immunity would be gained (a do-it-yourself vaccine)

on the vaccine front, the pre-BCG skin test seems to be the key thing in my childhood area - they have most definitely lowered the threshold for deciding you have immunity. My level of reaction was not considered violent enough (a full red ring) when I was vaccinated in 1994, but when my little sister was up for BCG in 2004, she had a similar level of reaction and was not vaccinated. I don't know where we got our 'immunity' from , but a great aunt of mine had TB. I met her briefly in ireland (where my family are from), but my baby sister did not!

Hmmm.....?

Anyway, the rise in nasty TB at the mo is a different strain, and so all our BCGs are probably powerless (cheerful thought).

The worst vaccine I ever had was rabies. I felt terrible after that. And it isn't a fully effective vaccine - just buys you some time so you can get to a hospital for treatment (I was going to a remote region).

#34: Author: champagnedrinker,

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:56 pm
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Tor wrote:

The worst vaccine I ever had was rabies. I felt terrible after that. And it isn't a fully effective vaccine - just buys you some time so you can get to a hospital for treatment (I was going to a remote region).

I don't remember the rabies one being particularly bad, but I do remember the Meningitis one before they started using the 10 year one. It was quite a thick liquid, so you needed a *big* needle & had to do it in a buttock. My friend was in the next cubicle in the health centre, recognised my voice (it was a small town!), so she peeped round the curtain & gave me a running commentary of the size of the needle...

The illest I felt was after I'd had to have two or 3 at the same time, & the nurse did warn me that i might feel bad, as one of them was tetanus (can't remember the rest, polio & typhoid I think). The reason she said it might affect me was because they reckon that after about 5 tetanus jabs; you've probably had enough. However, I was going to a rather remote Pacific Island, and so the nearest hospital would have been several days away. So, she decided it was best to have it.

#35: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Leeds

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:29 pm
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I had the menningitis vaccination when I was 17 (8-9 years ago). Everyone in my sixth form had it, and I seem to remember it being a standard injection to have at that age (though I suppose that could have been just in my region). I was vaccinated against MMR at 11, TB at 13 and diptheria/polio/tetanus at 15. Again, they were all standard programmes, with everyone in the school year being vaccinated at the same time.

For the diptheria etc one. I queued up with everyone else at school, but because I was on antibiotics or something they wouldn't give me it. It meant I missed PE (and hurdles, which I especially hated!), so I was doubly happy. Although I did have to have it done later at the GP's surgery.

#36: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:45 pm
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Tor wrote:

You may have been allergic to it - some people are. I used to give rabies vaccination regularly to a number of people in my previous post and very occasionally someone reacted badly - most of the time there was very little reaction.

The best vaccination as far as giving no side effects is the Hep B vaccine - like giving water - have given thousands of them and only know one serious reaction to it.

#37: Author: MaryR, Location: Cheshire

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:22 pm
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evelyn38 wrote:

Interestingly the advice we had recently when a local health professional had TB was that the vaccination was only of limited effect, and that you had to have at least 8 hours close contact with someone with TB and even then you would only have a very minimal risk of developing the disease.

I wasn't given the vaccination for TB when I was a young teenager in 1959, as the test for it proved positive and they assumed I therefore had immunity. Alas, this proved not to be true, and you may well be right about the close contact, Evelyn, because in my fifth year of teaching I caught it from an Irish traveller's child in school. This was 1974. (The young male teacher who took over my job also caught it, I found out later.) It transferred to my uterus, making me infertile as it scars the tubes - it was detected when having fertility investigations, as it had by then disappeared from my chest. To my horror, I learned it is one of the known causes of infertility, so be warned.

#38: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:35 pm
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Lesley wrote:

The best vaccination as far as giving no side effects is the Hep B vaccine - like giving water - have given thousands of them and only know one serious reaction to it.

Yes, but it doesn't half hurt going in - I remember when we had an outbreak at school and all had to be vaccinated, and we all felt like we'd been kicked in the bum for the rest of the day!

The vaccination that caused most distress, though, was the cholera one which girls going to places like India and Malaysia for the holidays had to have - I believe that has now been discontinued, but I remember having to help people get undressed because they were so stiff they couldn't move their arms to undo their bras, and often they were very feverish and miserable for a couple of days.

When I was a very small child in the 1950s, you didn't only have to miss school if you had measles, mumps or chicken-pox, but if a sibling did, too. I missed several weeks of one term when first my brother and then my mother had mumps - I didn't catch them until somewhat later. You might remember how, in Ransome's Winter Holiday, they can't go back to school while Nancy has mumps. I don't know when that stopped being normal practice, but it certainly had stopped by the time my sister went to school in the 1970s.

#39: Author: LauraMcC, Location: St Andrews or Kinross

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:02 pm
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Smile said:

Quote:

Not sure about the rest of the UK but certainly in Scotland everybody used to get the BCG at 12 or 13 and I did but I was one of the last years to get it. Know they only give it to people who are deemed "high risk groups" meaning that I am imunised but my sister isn't.

I was given the BCG when I was 13 (in Scotland) around five and a half years ago, and so was my brother two years later. Do you know when they stopped it? Everyone in my year group got it, except for those who chose not to, but it was probably different for different areas. I also had the MemC one when I was 10 or 11, and the tetanus one when I was 15. My arm was sore for days afterwards, although it hadn't hurt much going in. I was also offered the MMR at several points during my school career, but I didn't have it, as I had been so ill after my 18 month injection, it was thought wise to give that one a miss!

#40: Author: evelyn38, Location: Rochester Kent

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:31 pm
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Mary wrote

Quote:

To my horror, I learned it is one of the known causes of infertility, so be warned.

Gosh, Mary, how awful for you. I think society is a bit complacent about TB now, because it can at least be treated by antibiotics (though I recognise the treatment is arduous). I wish they had continued with the BCG vaccinations; even if they are imperfect. It seems to me that if you can justify vaccinating boys against Rubella on the herd principle (ie that if they don't get it, they won't infect the pregnant women who suffer the real risk from it), then you can justify vaccinating against TB - particularly given the greater movement of people around the globe nowadays.

#41: Author: Lulie, Location: Middlesbrough

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:07 pm
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evelyn38 wrote:

It seems to me that if you can justify vaccinating boys against Rubella on the herd principle (ie that if they don't get it, they won't infect the pregnant women who suffer the real risk from it), then you can justify vaccinating against TB - particularly given the greater movement of people around the globe nowadays.

When I had my Rubella jab many years ago they only vaccinated the girls - the boys escaped that one! Although I'd had Rubella when I was a child, so I'm assuming I was immune anyway?

#42: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:15 pm
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Mrs Redboots wrote:

Lesley wrote:

The best vaccination as far as giving no side effects is the Hep B vaccine - like giving water - have given thousands of them and only know one serious reaction to it.

Yes, but it doesn't half hurt going in - I remember when we had an outbreak at school and all had to be vaccinated, and we all felt like we'd been kicked in the bum for the rest of the day!

Think that must have been Hepatitis A - completely different illness and vaccine. Hep B is passed on via blood/sex - mainly needed for health care workers/prison workers and the like and those working with intravenous drug users.

#43: Author: ness, Location: LANCS,ENGLAND

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:25 pm
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The current plan for BCGs to vaccinate babies at birth who have parents who come form countries where TB is endemic, mostly the indian subcontinent and africa. In most areas the vaccination at 12/13 yrs has been dropped. If I lived in an area with a lot of TB I would have my child vaccinated at birth whatever my ethnic origin.

I have already seen 4 cases of TB in the 6 weeks I have worked in Blackburn. We have also had 4 cases of rickets in the last 2 weeks, sometimes it feels like we are working in the 19th century.

#44: Author: Fi, Location: Somerset

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:30 pm
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Mrs Redboots wrote:

Lesley wrote:

The best vaccination as far as giving no side effects is the Hep B vaccine - like giving water - have given thousands of them and only know one serious reaction to it.

Yes, but it doesn't half hurt going in - I remember when we had an outbreak at school and all had to be vaccinated, and we all felt like we'd been kicked in the bum for the rest of the day!

I was fine with my first and third Hep B jabs (given in the arm), but the second one hurt like stink. It hurt a lot going in and my arm ached for a week afterwards. I am not usually bothered by needles or injections but that occasion was decidedly unpleasant.

#45: Author: Smile :), Location: Location? What's a location?

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:52 pm
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[quote=laura] Do you know when they stopped it? [/quote]

About three years ago probably. Not too sure. But I do know that now they just give out a letter to determine if you are from a high risk group and then you can go and ask for one from the health centre.

#46: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:34 am
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Alison H wrote:

I don't think vaccinations are ever mentioned in the CS books, except for the smallpox vaccinations in Theodora ... unless I'm forgetting things which is very possible!

There is at least one other - in New, and for smallpox again:

Quote:

They went, adding several of the two forms on their way, and finally arrived in Matron’s room to find that lady awaiting them, Dr Jem beside her, and a case open on the table before him. In the far corner stood Dr Mensch with swabs and sundry bottles on a small table beside him. Miss Annersley was also there, looking very grave. The girls stopped in the doorway, wondering what it was all about.
‘Come in, girls,’ said Dr Jem genially. ‘No need to be afraid. But there’s smallpox about. Two more cases have been reported, and we’re vaccinating the entire valley just for safety.’
So that was what it was all about. No wonder the Head has been so short in her manner lately!
One by one the girls were questioned as to when they had last been vaccinated, and if it had ‘taken’. Three people had been done within the last five years. All the rest had to be attended to now. The three lucky ones were sent off to the garden. The others went to Gottfried Mensch, who swabbed off their arms, made an impression with a tiny instrument on the place, and then sent them to his colleague, who gave them the vaccine. That done, they had to stand aside till it dried, when they were sent out.

#47: Author: tiffinata, Location: melbourne, australia

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:06 am
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We have an immunization register here for children....and in order to encourage you to immunize them, once they have had all their scheduled ones you are entitled to a paid bonus!
However if for some reason the immunizer (ie doctor or local council) forgets to send the information to the register or you haven't done it within 21 days of when it is due you get a letter from the government threatening to cancel all your childcare benefits!

Harrison just had his 12 month ones. He didn't get them ON his birthday because I had to take him to an after hours session. He was sick for the first one and made it to the second- a day after getting above letter.

On birth they have Hep B, 2 months hep b/HIB, diptheria Tetenus/polio/whooping cough (which they recommended adults to have a booster shot as it wears off) At 4 months the same and 6 months all except Hep.B.
We had the option of rotavirus which is now on the schedule.

At 12 months a booster of HIB/Hep.B, MeingococcalC/Measels/mumps/rubella. Each session is 3 injections!
At 18 months Chicken pox.

My son is currently looking like a pincushion!

Last edited by tiffinata on Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:26 am; edited 1 time in total

#48: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:26 am
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I'm surprised about Hep B - here it's given only for those at risk due to occupation as it's a blood borne virus only passed on by sharing blood/unprotected sex. Are you sure it's not Hep A, tiffanata?

#49: Author: Aquabird, Location: North Lanarkshire

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:33 am
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I received the MMR when I was a baby, the BCG when I was 13 (second year of high school), then in third year I had a diptheria/tetanus shot and polio drops (which tasted REVOLTING - I'd rather have had another shot in the arm!). On the other hand, my brother, who is three years younger than me (currently in fourth year at high school), didn't have to get the BCG because they'd stopped giving it in schools by then. I can't remember if he got the diptheria/polio/tetanus jabs, but he probably did.
Apparently there has been an outbreak of scarlet fever at a school near where I live, and they've temporarily shut it down. I hope it doesn't spread. Shocked

#50: Author: Alex, Location: Oxford

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:17 pm
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Something which often is realised about vaccination is that the antibodies produced have a lifespan of 20 years or so (I can't remember the exact number), and if your body isn't rechallenged by exposure to disease then 20 years after vaccination you will no longer be immune. This is an increasing problem with German Measles (rubella). In the UK only women were vaccinated against rubella at age 11 (need to get it in before pregnancy as can affect the foetus). It was decided not to vaccinate boys as an attempt to keep the infection in circulation so that women would be re-exposed. This hasn't really worked and the MMR means that all children are now immunised. As women are increasingly having their children in their late 20s/early 30s they are no longer immune by the time they are pregant and it is increasingly seen that child number 1 picks up rubella at playgroup/nursery exposing mum when she is pregnant with child number 2 which can lead to problems.

Serious message: if you're in your 30s and planning to become pregnant then get your doctor to check your immunity and if necessary get a re-vaccine.

#51: Author: Sugar, Location: second star to the right!

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:25 pm
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Alex wrote:

. As women are increasingly having their children in their late 20s/early 30s they are no longer immune by the time they are pregant and it is increasingly seen that child number 1 picks up rubella at playgroup/nursery exposing mum when she is pregnant with child number 2 which can lead to problems.

Serious message: if you're in your 30s and planning to become pregnant then get your doctor to check your immunity and if necessary get a re-vaccine.

My friend is currently 32 wks pregnant with her third and oldest two have both just had chicken pox - the eldest was very very ill and she's just had to be vaccinated as she's never had chickenpox and there was a risk to her baby.

#52: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:49 pm
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ness wrote:

The current plan for BCGs to vaccinate babies at birth who have parents who come form countries where TB is endemic, mostly the indian subcontinent and africa. In most areas the vaccination at 12/13 yrs has been dropped. If I lived in an area with a lot of TB I would have my child vaccinated at birth whatever my ethnic origin.

My cousin's baby was given the BCG at 3 weeks which surprised the whole family. She has moved to Ireland, so whether that is standard procedure there I don't know.

#53: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:20 pm
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Clare wrote:

My cousin's baby was given the BCG at 3 weeks which surprised the whole family. She has moved to Ireland, so whether that is standard procedure there I don't know.

It is usually given at birth. They tried to stop it some years ago, but there was a massive public outcry and it was brought back in. I definitely had it at birth and I'm 23. I have two round scars from it.

My aunt has a huge scar from the smallpox vaccine - she must have been one of the last to get that. She is 52 - my mum is 51 and doesn't have it.

In Ireland they routinely give immunisations against TB (at birth), polio, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, Hib and men C (at 2, 4 and 6 months) and measles, mumps and rubella (at 12 months). They're free from a GP and boosters are given in school.

#54: Author: tiffinata, Location: melbourne, australia

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:24 am
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Lesley wrote:

I'm surprised about Hep B - here it's given only for those at risk due to occupation as it's a blood borne virus only passed on by sharing blood/unprotected sex. Are you sure it's not Hep A, tiffanata?

Nope, definitely hep B
Adults are encouraged to get it done too as the virus remains alive in infected fluids outside the body for a fair while. Not sure of how long, but it is more than HIV/AIDS which I think is 18 minutes

#55: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:15 am
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Oh yes it is far easier to catch than the AIDS virus - but here it's considered purely an occupational disease - some GPs have been known to charge for it - different countries! Laughing

Edited because I cannot spell! Rolling Eyes

Last edited by Lesley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total

#56: Author: tiffinata, Location: melbourne, australia

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:42 am
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Working for local government often we clean out drains or pick up old mattresses and clothes and there was always the risk of needle stick injury when picking up rubbish or mulch.

#57: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:53 am
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That would be considered an occupational risk - I was just surprised your son was given the jab when still a baby.

#58: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:42 pm
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Lesley wrote:

Could well be - I somehow thought the blood-borne one was C, but you would know better than me!

Kate wrote:

My aunt has a huge scar from the smallpox vaccine - she must have been one of the last to get that. She is 52 - my mum is 51 and doesn't have it.

I have a feeling that by then it was only given if there was a confirmed case in the area, rather than routinely - I was done at school (I'm nearly 55) but I am almost sure it was due to a scare. I could be wrong, though....

I definitely remember having anti-polio injections - I think it was the very first vaccine that came in in the mid-1950s; my final booster, given when I left school, was on a sugar-lump. It tasted of nothing at the time, but by the time we had walked back from the San to the boarding-house, all we wanted to do was hold our mouths under the cold tap.... goodness, but it left a nasty aftertaste!

#59: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:39 pm
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Hep C is also blood borne - but there's no vaccine for it (as far as I'm aware)

#60: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:31 pm
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Andrew was born in Cyprus, and was given various shots at three days old. These included TB and polio vaccine when he was six weeks old.

Donald did not have so many so soon, probably because we were back in the UK by then.

#61: Author: claire, Location: South Wales

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:36 pm
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I think the US do hep B at birth as well (and some cream in the eyes - I think it's against syphillis or gonerrhea)

#62: Author: tiffinata, Location: melbourne, australia

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:34 pm
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we get tested for those while we are pregnant!

#63: Author: claire, Location: South Wales

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:27 pm
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yes but you could have been a naughty girl when pregnant - you couldn't actually be trusted to be faithful

#64: Author: tiffinata, Location: melbourne, australia

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:52 am
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Twisted Evil

#65: Author: Sunglass, Location: Usually London

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:52 pm
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Do I remeber correctly that in Theodora, when she, Len and Rosamund accidentally come into contact on a ramble with the little girl whose mother is ill (with smallpox?) and are vaccinated then and there, that the doctor in question emerges from the house with a single syringe, which he uses for all of them? I think I remember that the syringe is in a basin of boiling water, but wouldn't a needle need to be boiled so as not to pass on potential infection?

#66: Author: Catherine, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:09 pm
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I never had the rubella vaccine. The doctor did a blood test and said I was immune so didn't need it.

I had a tetanus and polio booster about 12 years ago, so I'm guessing I should probably be making arrangements to get another! I don't think I had a booster between the original and the booster but I'm not certain. I got the BCG at school though.

#67: Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:53 am
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I find Mary's story rather frightening because I haven't had the BCG either. I was told I was immune, and so I believe is my dad. Both my mum and my brother got it though. At the time I was relieved because I'm needle-phobic, and the thought that particular needle literally gave me nightmares. I worried myself nearly sick about the six-needles test, and was just as bad over the tetanus/polio jab.

Re infectious diseases and quarantine - unless you've got a proper san it's pretty hard to do in a boarding school. The staff had a collective fit when my chicken pox was discovered. One minute I was sitting happily in the (thankfully empty) junior common room with a member of staff and a fellow student learning how to make decorative sugar roses. The next minute I was being hustled down to sickbay, and they didn't allow me to put my nose out of the place for an entire week. I was especially annoyed because British Airways refused to let me fly, and i had to hang around school for an extra few days after I finished my exams without anyone particularly wanting me around! lol. We then had a major flu epidemic the same year (95) and virtually the entire school got sick. It was so bad that at one point they were talking about sending everyone home and closing the school for a week in order to fumigate. But then the tide turned and we didn't get our unexpected holiday after all.

#68: Author: Karry, Location: Stoke on Trent

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:15 am
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I had BCG at the age of 6 weeks, purely because Dad had had TB three years before I was born. he was a psychiatric nurse who had looked ater TB patients and had had extended exposure. he didnt go away to a sanitorium, but looked after in his own hospital!

#69: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:36 pm
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There's been an outbreak of TB at a school in Birmingham, which most people in the UK've probably heard about on the news - here - it's pretty frightening how it's spread to 30 pupils.

The CBB -> Anything Else

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