Head Girls
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#1: Head Girls Author: BeeLocation: Canberra, Australia PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 3:24 am
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I was wondering who everyone thought made the best Head Girl? In the books it's clear that Jo is supposed to be the "best Head Girl the school had ever had", with Mary-Lou and Len (and possibly Gisela) as a close second. What are your thoughts?

I personally think it was Gisela (I know it's an obvious choice, but I can't help it!). She was the one who originally established the respect the girls had for the prefect body. She remained friendly with all the girls, no matter how old they were, and still commanded respect. Granted, the school was much smaller, but she made each member feel like they were important, and I liked how she sought out advice from other girls (even Joey, who was only 12)! Can anyone imagine Jo as Head Girl asking younger girls for help?

She was also the most approachable. All the girls felt like she was also their friend, and trusted her. Jo had everyone's liking and respect, but I dont' think the younger girls (I'm thinking twelve-year-olds) felt like they could turn to her.

I also thought Mary Burnett, Hilary Burn and Mary-Lou were excellent Head Girls. And obviously Jo - although I think her drastic treatment of the younger girls could pass as bullying... Confused

#2:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:37 am
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IMHO Gisela was far and away the best Head Girl ever! And Mary-Lou, whilst she was a busybody, at least tried to help people in her own way. I'm not quite sure why everyone's supposed to think that Joey was such a great Head Girl! I think that Bride did a reasonable job too.

I'm sorry that we didn't actually get to see either Juliet or Robin as Head Girl, and we never really see some of the others doing much either - Maeve, Josette, Rosamund, Elizabeth Arnett, etc.

#3:  Author: ElbeeLocation: Surrey PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:54 am
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I think Gisela too, partly because she features quite a lot in the first book and we see her growing into the role of Head Girl, with realistic doubts and attempts to do a good job. Through perseverance and force of character whilst still retaining her friendliness we see her succeeding and becoming much admired and respected.

I would like to have seen Elizabeth Arnett feature more as Head Girl - after her own turbulent start I think she would have probably been able to deal firmly but sympathetically with unruly Middles, whilst showing how much she herself had matured!

#4:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:47 am
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I like Gisela too. She took her responsibilites very seriously, and it's due to her that the Prefects became the respected body they were at the school. In School At when Grizel is rude:
Quote:
It was, had they but known it, the testing-point of the Prefect system in the Châlet School. Had they given way, or taken no notice of the English girl’s defiance, it would have been ‘good-bye’ to all hope of self-government. Luckily for the school, Gisela Marani was made of too fine stuff to throw up the game weakly. To her mind there was only one course to follow, and she followed it.

Of course EBD didn't know when she wrote that, that forty plus years and nearly sixty books later the Prefects would still be governing the School on those lines, but she had Gisela laying the foundations.

I'd like to put in a vote for Hilary Burn, too. She was Head Girl at the time of the Anschluss, and we do see her showing leadership at that time. And she was one of the girls on the flight from Austria. She had quite a lot of responsibility for the younger girls when Miss Wilson was incapacitated and Jo was being useless. Although Hilary is around in most of the later books, all that seems to be forgotten.

#5:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:58 am
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I'd put a vote in for Bride. She's catapulted into the job mid-year, unexpectedly, with the added indignity of being told she was a logical choice in the first place but was passed over because her sister held the job the year before. She's head during an unexpected and rather chaotic merger with another school, and has to exert her head-dom over girls who aren't steeped in the CS traditions and are her own age. She is also head girl during the preparations for the move to Switzerland, also rather chaotic.

She's also a nice girl - level headed and practical, but friendly. She doesn't stand on her dignity with the other girls and listens to advice, but isn't afraid to address problems head on. I love the scene when the prefects are trying to decide on the sale, and when Bride goes dashing off for her book they pretend she's mad and get ready to defend themselves.

#6:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:41 am
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I really like Gisela as well, but I think it's difficult to compare her with the other Head Girls because of, among other things, the sheer size of the school when she was leading it. Moreover the group is made up of girls who are determined to set standards and establish the school. They are (by and large) keen for it to be a success. Later groups did not have this concern and did not look on the way their actions would affect the school. In addition, there was no really troublesome pupil in the sense of a Diana Skelton or an Eilunned Vaughn who sets out to cause problems for members of authority.

I really liked seeing Maeve Bettany as Head Girl, particularly in the scenes with Jack and Jane, considering the way we have seen Maeve grow and develop through her time at school. Julie Lucy also does a very commendable job considering that she is left behind when all her friends move on and so does not have the basis of a support network among her fellow Prefects.

#7:  Author: Fiona McLocation: Bendigo, Australia PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:49 am
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What about Louise who had the horrible job of being after Joey and then had to cope with St Scholastika merging with the school. Half the time Jo turned up but I wished she let her get on with it. Also Hilary was also known as being one of the best Head Girls. Daisy says something about it in Tom. I don't think Grizel did too badly as she had the madman wander off with Robin. At times she didn't handle things well as with Deira over Prefects jobs but I could see her growing into her role. I also liked Bride as Head Girl and never thought Loveday should ever have been made it. Betsy Lucy wasn't too bad either

#8:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 12:41 pm
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Fiona Mc wrote:
What about Louise who had the horrible job of being after Joey and then had to cope with St Scholastika merging with the school.


And the knowledge that she only had the job by default.

JayB, member of the Anne Seymour Appreciation Society

#9:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 1:43 pm
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I don't know where all the stuff about Anne Seymour being HG comes from. I mean, this being EBD we shouldn't be surprised but it seems like a very gratuitous thing to put in considering in New House Anne thinks she's going to be Games Prefect. At that point it doesn't seem like Anne is tipped for HG so I think EBD just put the bit in New in as a whim - reach us all about the consequences of our actions etc.

I think Louise does make a good Head Girl, as well.

Mary Burnett, Gisela, Joey, and Grizel I think do good jobs. Though with Joey and Grizel it's more about them as people rather than them as Head Girl so you don't really get them being the 'Head Girl' so much. Mary-Lou and Len are obviously great but we don't see much of them 'struggling' in their position and developing like we do with the earlier HGs.

It's hard to compare the early HGs to the later ones though, because most of them are pretty much ciphers - with the ears of a cat, the ability to quell even the wildest middle, etc - unless the book is actually about them as Head Girl. (Like Bride for example).

However, out of this bunch, I think Maeve and Peggy are both quite good. Peggy because she deals with being Head Girl straight out of the Fifth and isn't perfect - running out during the storm, for eg - and Maeve because she has a very different style. Also I have a fondness for Josette, and Bride seems to do a good job (though I haven't read most of 'her' books).

#10: Re: Head Girls Author: annahLocation: Liverpool UK PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 7:51 pm
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Quote:
Can anyone imagine Jo as Head Girl asking younger girls for help?

She [Gisela] was also the most approachable. All the girls felt like she was also their friend, and trusted her. Jo had everyone's liking and respect, but I dont' think the younger girls (I'm thinking twelve-year-olds) felt like they could turn to her
.

I think Jo's lack of connection with the younger girls is evident more than once. Notably in Lintons when Gillian asks Jo to speak to Joyce about her behaviour. Jo says, talking of the prefects at her previous school, "But I'm not so awfully much older than Joyce, and we aren't nearly so inaccessible as they were."
Gillian replies "I guess you seem so to the kids here" said Gillian shrewdly. Still joyce rather admires you at a distance - I know that from things she's said."

Overall I think Jo's success as head girl is more something we are told rather than something we are shown.

#11:  Author: BeeLocation: Canberra, Australia PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:13 am
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Loryat wrote:
I don't know where all the stuff about Anne Seymour being HG comes from. I mean, this being EBD we shouldn't be surprised but it seems like a very gratuitous thing to put in considering in New House Anne thinks she's going to be Games Prefect. At that point it doesn't seem like Anne is tipped for HG so I think EBD just put the bit in New in as a whim - reach us all about the consequences of our actions etc.


I've been wondering about this for a while. I always thought Anne was supposed to be Head Girl, and she missed out because of the accident when she was picking flowers in New House. If that's the case, isn't that really hypocritical? Because Grizel was Head Girl after she ran away, and IMO, that's far worse.

By the way, Anne's one of my favourite characters (not sure why), so maybe I'm biased. Very Happy

#12:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:46 am
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I think there was also the problem that no one apart from Jo and the Robin knew about Grizel going to Schaffhausen, so it would all have had to be explained if she had not been appointed. Everyone knew what Anne had done and so, apart from anything else, her actions had to be used as an example and a warning to others. Imagine what would have happened if younger girls thought they could play around the water.

*nurtures new plot bunny and then pushes it out into the sunlight for someone to love and adopt*

#13:  Author: RoseClokeLocation: In my pretty box-like room PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:48 pm
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I liked Gisela, especially when she decided only to go to Madame as a last resort - she was a new girl, holding a job she hadn't had any training for (most HG's were sub-prefects first, at least) and it would have been tempting just to run straight to Madge for help.

I also agree with Bee and annah - in the later books the prefects are seen as a remote body, with a few notable exceptions (such as Mary Lou, who makes it her business to speak to everyone Laughing ). They don't seem to have much to do with the other girls unless they're telling them off or supervising prep. Although this could be down to any number of things (and indeed, most schools don't have mixed-age socialising), including housing the different forms in different buildings.

#14:  Author: MelLocation: UP NORTH PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:25 pm
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To be fair Mary-Lou is a very good Head Girl it's just before as a Senior and Senior Middle that she is annoying. As HG she is reliable and kind and puts in a lot of time and effort with Naomi and the triplets. Joey in contrast is very casual in her attitude to younger/difficult pupils.

#15:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:38 pm
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RoseCloke wrote:
I also agree with Bee and annah - in the later books the prefects are seen as a remote body, with a few notable exceptions (such as Mary Lou, who makes it her business to speak to everyone Laughing ). They don't seem to have much to do with the other girls unless they're telling them off or supervising prep. Although this could be down to any number of things (and indeed, most schools don't have mixed-age socialising), including housing the different forms in different buildings.


Definitely, the remoteness starts with the age segregation of the school into different buildings, but also I think it's down to the sheer size of the school in the later books. It's easy to know everyone when there are 30 of you living in one building, but an awful lot harder when there are 300+ of you spread over four or five houses.

To be honest, it seems more realistic to me to have the older girls quite remote from the younger ones in a "normal" sized school, than if EBD portrayed it otherwise.

My fave Head Girls are the same as everyone's, I think.

Gisela - because she is quite clearly just a lovely girl, and is a trail blazer.

Juliet - because she rises above so much to become so respected - even though we don't see that much of her in her year as HG.

Joey, I do like as HG, but I don't think she's as good at the job as we're later told she is. She does grow into it, though. She makes mistakes (IMO) in And Jo and Exploits, starts off on the wrong foot in Lintons but gets it right in the end, and is lovely, under difficult circumstances in New House.

I like Gill Culver as HG - I wish we'd seen more of her. And Beth Chester - she makes a lovely HG, but she's not in the greatest of books, so we get a rather strange picture of her.... Hilary Burn, I also wish we had seen more of her.... And Rosamund Lilley.

Hmmm. Seems all my faves are the early HGs or the one-book-only girls!
Very Happy

#16:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:19 am
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When is Beth Head Girl?

I'd've liked to have seen more of Rosamund as Head Girl, because I always liked her, but she's not really 'there' very much.

#17:  Author: CarysLocation: London PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:45 pm
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Beth's headgirl in the year that's Mystery, Tom and Rosalie I think. All books, with the possible exception of Tom, that aren't really standard length books.

#18:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:57 pm
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Cazx wrote:
Beth's headgirl in the year that's Mystery, Tom and Rosalie I think. All books, with the possible exception of Tom, that aren't really standard length books.


Weirdly, it's Jesanne Gellibrand who is head girl in Mystery... another One-Term-Only girl.

As you say, Beth is HG in Tom and Rosalie - and there's no explanation of where Jesanne has gone (well, not that I remember, anyway... Very Happy ).

Those three books always seem a complete mess with regard to prefects and chronology etc. Jesanne is replaced by Beth after a term, Daisy is Games Pree and then is replaced by Gay Lambert (because Daisy has a music exam, of all lame reasons Rolling Eyes ), who by rights should be still in the Fifth Form, and the Second Prefect is Mary Turner, someone we have pretty much never met, until Jacynth takes over during Rosalie - and she should be in the Lower Fifth at this point....

And then Jacynth and Gay are still prefects about four years later.

I think KB tries to make sense of it in her Peace afterword - but I might be making that up!

#19:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 2:56 am
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Caroline wrote:
I think KB tries to make sense of it in her Peace afterword - but I might be making that up!


*lol* I certainly had a red-hot go! I actually ignored the Jesanne part of it and focused on the problems in Rosalie:

Quote:
Rosalie also presents several problems, mostly to do with a group of girls who have suddenly been appointed prefects. The first we learn about are Gay Lambert and Jacynth Hardy (Armada 1987 page 9; 1994 edition combined with Mystery page 103), who, at the respective ages of seventeen and sixteen, are Games Prefect and Second Prefect. EBD at least explains why Daisy has given up the position of Games Prefect, stating that she has an important exam this term (page 23/121), but the choice of Gay as a replacement seems odd, to say the least. Several others in the same form have also become prefects—Mollie Avery and Nancy Canton (pages 66 and 78 [170 and 184] respectively) are described as such, Esther Collins is on table duty (page 88/196) and Dorcas Brownlow, who has been at the School for two terms, is with the prefects when they discuss the play they will see at half term (page 56/159). (Admittedly this is not the only case of an almost new girl being promoted to prefectship—Dickie Christy is appointed Second Prefect in Peggy [page 81] after only a term at the School. However, I would also argue that Dorcas is too young to be a prefect in Rosalie, being only fifteen and in Lower V.)

#20:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:32 am
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It explains it in Tom. Jesanne has to travel to New Zealand to deal with business regarding her father's farm, and Lois goes with her.

This, of course, conveniently forgets the ongoing war...

#21:  Author: macyroseLocation: Great White North (Canada) PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:00 pm
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Jennifer wrote:

Quote:
This, of course, conveniently forgets the ongoing war...


Probably due to the time the book was written. Tom was first published in 1955 as a retrospective so EBD probably didn't even think of writing about the war.

#22:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:39 pm
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macyrose wrote:
Jennifer wrote:

Quote:
This, of course, conveniently forgets the ongoing war...


Probably due to the time the book was written. Tom was first published in 1955 as a retrospective so EBD probably didn't even think of writing about the war.


Yes, but it was first published in Second and Third Chalet Books for girls, in 1948 and 1949, so I think it would have been written about '47. Not *that* long after the war.

I do agree that that after all the war-focus in Exile-Gay, EBD had pretty much had enough of writing war stories, with all the restrictions on activities and trips and so on, and had probably made a conscious decision to move the series on. The war doesn't exactly feature much in Jo to the Rescue, either, and that was published in sequence rather than retrospectively.

#23:  Author: CarysLocation: London PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:56 pm
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In my mind EBD has the war ending in Rescue, there are a few references to when they can go back to Tyrol. Whenever I read it I imagine it's set in 1945 or possibly 1944.
I don't attempt to date the books in a set time frame as there are just too many EBDism's to contend with...

#24:  Author: macyroseLocation: Great White North (Canada) PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 5:13 pm
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Caroline wrote:

Quote:
Yes, but it was first published in Second and Third Chalet Books for girls, in 1948 and 1949, so I think it would have been written about '47. Not *that* long after the war.


Whoops! I'd completely forgotten about that. I agree with your point that EBD had probably had enough of the war even at that early point.

By the way, my favourite Head Girl is Gisela. She's a non-British girl who's been made Head in a school that's going to be run on different (British) lines from those she must have been used to (and I wonder if she had ever gone to any school before since in School Bette says that she, Gisela and Maria had had a Mamsell), she's not afraid to ask questions and learn from others (even those younger than her), can take a joke well (the St. Swithin's Day prank), is friendly to all but can command respect when necessary, and she blazes the trail for all the rest who come after her.

#25:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:38 pm
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I should think the publishers too didn't want any war stories once the war was over.

Both the Maranis were Head Girl, which is quite an achievement, since the only other sister Head Girls I can think of are the Bettanys and the Lucys, who are two of the favoured families.

#26:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:21 am
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The publisher's wants are a good point.

In 1947, I think, there was still rationing etc, wasn't there? Plus rebuilding and healing up and dealing with life after the war was over, but when it wasn't going to ever go back to the way the world used to be.

I can imagine that kids stories featuring the war wouldn't have been in high demand right then.

#27:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:24 am
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Oh, yeah

Head Girls who were only head for one term:

Bette Rincini
Maria Marani
Mary Shand
Jesanne Gellibrand
Loveday Perowne
Rosamund Lilley

--

Poor Mary is Head in the fall term, and demoted to library prefect for the rest of the year, while Elizabeth Arnett takes over.

#28:  Author: MaeveLocation: Romania PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:50 am
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Jay B said:
Quote:
Both the Maranis were Head Girl, which is quite an achievement, since the only other sister Head Girls I can think of are the Bettanys and the Lucys,


Mary and Peggy Burnett were another sister pair who made HG.

#29:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 1:27 pm
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Oh, I'd forgotten Peggy Burnett. In which book was she Head Girl? (Correcting my English in case Miss Annersley is reading.)

I wish we'd seen more of Rosamund Lilley as Head Girl. It was a really special achievement for her, more so than for girls like Len or Mary Lou, since she'd arrived a few years before with no experience of that type of school. Her parents must have been so proud of her. I'd have liked to see her reaction on being told she was to be Head Girl, and how she tackled the job.

#30:  Author: MaeveLocation: Romania PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:01 pm
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You know, I'm not quite sure when she was HG! But in Bride it refers to her as
Quote:
Peggy Burnett, formerly Head Girl of the school and now its P.T. mistress
.

Anyone else know?

#31:  Author: aitchemelleLocation: West Sussex PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:35 pm
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I liked Loveday and IMHO we don't hear enough about her.. isn't there a drabble or something in the archives which features her as central character *thinks*

I like lots of the HGs but some stick out more than others, Gisela, Bride and Maeve in particular!

#32:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:52 pm
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Maeve wrote:
You know, I'm not quite sure when she was HG! But in Bride it refers to her as
Quote:
Peggy Burnett, formerly Head Girl of the school and now its P.T. mistress


Anyone else know?


Is EBD mixing her up with Hilary Burn, perhaps? I know when I first read the books I had trouble sorting out Miss Burn and Miss Burnett, who were both Games mistresses.

#33:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:48 pm
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The post likely period is the time following the end of the war. I had Peggy as a sub-Prefect in Peace, and imagine that it would be quite likely for Peggy to take over as the next Head Girl. You could also easily fit Marilyn Evans in, regardless of whether you see the gap between Rosalie and Three Go as two or three years.

#34:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:05 pm
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That where I'd place her, too.

I'd go for Peggy for a year and then Marilyn, being replaced by Gill Culver after one term (or part of a term, depending on exactly how bad she was!)....

#35:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:14 pm
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Just to get back to the war stories thing, I've been reading some stuff about Lorna Hill recently and one thing I hadn't realised before was that the 4th book in her Marjorie series was turned down by publishers in the late 1940s because it covered the war years and they felt that at that time people wouldn't want to buy children's books dealing with that period. Presumably EBD came up against the same attitude.

#36:  Author: BeeLocation: Canberra, Australia PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:59 pm
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In which book was Rosamund Lilley Head Girl?

And why was Maria Marani demoted to library prefect? Was it because of her breakdown the previous term? But I do think Elizabeth Arnett does a good job when she takes over - she was so insane when she was a Middle, she could understand them! Smile

#37:  Author: Fiona McLocation: Bendigo, Australia PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:10 am
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Bee wrote:
In which book was Rosamund Lilley Head Girl?

And why was Maria Marani demoted to library prefect? Was it because of her breakdown the previous term? But I do think Elizabeth Arnett does a good job when she takes over - she was so insane when she was a Middle, she could understand them! Smile


Rosamund Lilley was Head Girl in Redheads and Maria Marani wasn't demoted it was Mary Shand (easy to mix up Embarassed ) Mary Shand was Head Girl in Highland Twins. I'm assuming she was demoted due to exams which was a common enough occurence in those days; Robin and Daisy both did. Robin to focus on her final exams and scholarship to Oxford and Daisy did when she was a Games Prefect for her Violin Exam in Rosalie

#38:  Author: BeeLocation: Canberra, Australia PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:19 am
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Thank you Fiona! Very Happy

Was Rosamund still at school after Redheads? I seem to recall her still being at school when Len was Head Girl, so was she demoted? Which is a shame, beacause although I haven't read Redheads yet, I imagine Rosamund would have made a great Head Girl!

#39:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:46 am
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No, Rosamund isn't mentioned again after Redheads. Caroline has a lovely story that appeared in FOCS to explain why Rosamund had to leave the school. I'm not sure if it's on the CBB anywhere, but I'm sure Caroline will tell us!

#40:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:38 am
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I did repost it on here - it was called Rosamund Leaves the Chalet School (I think!). It was pre-hack, so may or may not be in the archives somewhere....

On the Mary Shand thing, you could argue that the school effectively had a Special Sixth (in all but name) at that point - or at least, it had a lot of girls staying on after 18 for various reasons (the war meaning non-UK girls couldn't get home (Corney, Mary) or a lot of girls having gaps in their education due to the war / illness etc. (Robin, Amy) or complications re. being called up versus university entrance).

Various of these girls seem to serve for a period as a prefect and then step aside, and I don't really think we can see this as a demotion exactly. It's more about giving up prefectly duties to concentrate on more advanced work or university scholarship work or whatever (like we see with Anthea Barentt and Co when Peggy is Head Girl).

Later on, such girls would have gone to St Mildred's but here, they have to stay at the school. So in Highland Twins - Gay from China Robin and Co. are still accorded the respect worthy to them as the eldest girls in the school, but don't have to take on the supervision duties of the actual prefects.

#41:  Author: Mrs RedbootsLocation: London, UK PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:01 pm
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Caroline wrote:
Later on, such girls would have gone to St Mildred's but here, they have to stay at the school. So in Highland Twins - Gay from China Robin and Co. are still accorded the respect worthy to them as the eldest girls in the school, but don't have to take on the supervision duties of the actual prefects.


This tended to happen at the school I was at for girls who stayed on a 7th term to take Oxbridge entrance exams - back then, Oxbridge took no notice of your A levels; you had to do a separate, much harder, entrance exam. Girls, in particular, normally stayed on an extra term at school to be coached for this exam - in those days, only a few colleges at either university were open to women, so it was far harder for us to get in than the boys.

Anyway, the point I'm rambling along and seemingly unable to reach is that those girls who stayed on had no responsibilities, even had they been prefects the previous year, but retained all the privileges, and then some.

#42:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:18 pm
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My dad did something similar - in fact, he did three years in the Sixth, doing S Level exams in various subjects during his 3rd year, and a bit of part time tutoring to the younger boys, too.

Not entirely sure why - he was going to Hull Uni rather than Oxbridge - but I think it was something combination of his Uni place being deferred for a year, avoiding National Service (which was abolished by the time he left Uni - you could choose to do it before or after University, I think, and he chose the latter - conveniently) and saving up some cash - he was the first in the family to go to college, and my grandparents couldn't afford to support him, really.

#43:  Author: BeeLocation: Canberra, Australia PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:01 am
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I was reading "A United Chalet School" last night, and I've decided to put a vote in for Louise Redfield, simply because she follows Joey Bettany. There's this whole episode where some of the Middles are performing a play at night, and Jo joins Louise, Gillian, Ida and Paula in catching them. Louise handles them really well, even with Jo "butting in", as it is put so nicely in the books. Rolling Eyes I didn't have any problem with Jo's character after school up until this book, but find it ridiculous that Jo pushes herself in with the prefects, even though the staff decided to let them handle the Middles themselves. Even so, Louise is able to handle St Scholastika's merging with the Chalet School, the worst Middles to date (Elizabeth Arnett and Betty Wynne-Davies) and the knowledge that she follows the most popular Head Girl!

#44:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:54 am
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I think Lulu was a good HG as well. We saw her being responsible even as early as Eustacia, where she helps out Miss Stewart (a lot better than Joey did, it must be said).

But in fairness to Joey, it was an accident that she butted in on the prefects catching out the Middles.

#45:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:57 am
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Loryat wrote:
I think Lulu was a good HG as well. We saw her being responsible even as early as Eustacia, where she helps out Miss Stewart (a lot better than Joey did, it must be said).


Yes I noticed that too. Laughing

As to the accident that Joey helped - it was a plot device - to bring Joey into the scene where there was really no need for her to be - and weakened the Prefects when they had actually been doing very well and had arranged things so that they could deal with matters on their own.

#46:  Author: BeeLocation: Canberra, Australia PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:12 am
    —
Quote:
But in fairness to Joey, it was an accident that she butted in on the prefects catching out the Middles.


That's a good point!

I guess I really didn't mind that she was involved (in all honesty, I would have wanted to be involved too if I turned up on something like that!) - it was more that she took part in telling the Middles off. I think she should have stepped back and let the Prefects do their job (although really, when has Joey ever stepped back? Wink) IMO it not only weakened the Prefects but also Joey - up until then I liked the fact that she was still involved with the school, but I think this is the first time that EBD takes it too far...

#47:  Author: ClareLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:14 pm
    —
It was an accident that Joey was there when they caught them. But did the Prefects ask her to come to a meeting to decide what was to be done with them or did she tell them she was coming? I can't remember.

#48:  Author: MiriamLocation: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:32 pm
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She was "...bidden to the assembly virtue of having been amoing the captors of the previous night."

She was only there when the prefects were discussing what the punishment should be though. When she is invited to attend the actual meeting she declines, "...pointing out that such things were no buisness of hers now." She does, of course, attend the play that evening, but that was a case of the more the merrier.

#49:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:34 pm
    —
I'm sorry that EBD didn't write about Robin as Head Girl - which is possibly why The CS and Robin is my favourite fill-in Very Happy - because I really like Robin as a teenager/young adult. In Tom Daisy consults Robin (on one of the rare occasions when someone consults anyone other than Joey on such matters!) about how best to deal with Tom, and we also see Robin having a good influence (for lack of a better way of putting it) on Zephyr in Rescue.

Maybe EBD packed her off to Canada before she dared to become a rival to Joey - I bet she handled things much better than Joey did!

#50:  Author: Fiona McLocation: Bendigo, Australia PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:49 am
    —
Alison H wrote:
In Tom Daisy consults Robin (on one of the rare occasions when someone consults anyone other than Joey on such matters!) about how best to deal with Tom, and we also see Robin having a good influence (for lack of a better way of putting it) on Zephyr in Rescue.


I think that was such a natural way of doing things. I know growing up I tended to discuss things with siblings rather than with parents and Daisy and Robin are so close in age and would have seen each other like that whereas Joey is a little more parental. I wish we could have seen more of Robin cos she was one of my favourite characters too

#51:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:13 am
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I think EBD didn't really know what to do with Robin when she wasn't an angel child with a French accent any more. She doesn't feature half as much as you;d expect her to.

#52:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:30 pm
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Very true. Robin's a very similar character to Beth in Little Women - the angelic, frail, younger child, beloved of everyone, suffering so sweetly - and characters like that usually die before reaching adulthood. It's one of the archetypes of the Victorian novel, no?

EBD couldn't, I'm guessing, quite bring herself to kill Robin off. Which meant she had to find some way of Robin growing up. And I don't think she really knew how to do that - having spent so many books saying that she shouldn't marry or have children.

Query: if EBD had chosen to marry Rob off, who would you have her marry?

#53:  Author: macyroseLocation: Great White North (Canada) PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:30 pm
    —
There's an interesting article on the FOCS website that shows the appropriateness (for lack of a better word) of Robin becoming a nun: The Robin: Cecilia Marya Humphries, une vraie religieuse. As she's my favourite character I'm sorry she didn't appear more in the later books. I'm guessing that EBD ran out of storylines (or interest) once she grew up, and being a nun, while being a suitable vocation for the character, would also be a good reason to keep her "offstage," which was perhaps one of the reasons why she ended up in Canada instead of in Europe where she could have featured a little more heavily in the stories (like she did in Adrienne).

#54:  Author: BeeLocation: Canberra, Australia PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:19 am
    —
Quote:
Query: if EBD had chosen to marry Rob off, who would you have her marry?


I would have liked to see Rob married to someone not connected to the San in any way! It's hard to choose anyone though, because most of the male characters are all doctors. Then the rest are family members, who are way too young (or old!) for her.

I would have liked Rob to meet some handsome young man at university, or perhaps on her travels, and fall in love... She could also have had some independence. I think Robin was too sheltered - but then, perhaps EBD thought her too angelic to be corrupted by the evil world. Twisted Evil

#55:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:32 am
    —
macyrose wrote:
There's an interesting article on the FOCS website that shows the appropriateness (for lack of a better word) of Robin becoming a nun: The Robin: Cecilia Marya Humphries, une vraie religieuse.


That's Ann's article, right? First published in one of the FOCS Christmas Annual. I must go and read it again sometime...

As I posed the question of who Robin should marry, I suppose I should try and answer it. But the truth is, I can't think of anyone either! In fact, the only man I can think of that might be even vaguely the right age is Marie and Wanda's younger brother, Wolfram. And I can't see that, somehow. Bee is right - everyone is either too old or too young. I think EBD would have had to bring in a new male character for her, in the way she does with Juliet.

But, to be honest, I can't imagine her ever marrying. Really, I can't imagine her ever growing old, either. She's a character who never really talks about the future - what she's going to do when she grows up etc. - like other girls do. Really, EBD should have bitten the bullet and had her die.... Crying or Very sad

#56:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:18 am
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I could see her with a nice young teacher or professor, or, if she were Protestant, with a minister. She'd certainly make an ideal pastor's wife.

But you're right - we never hear her saying what she would like to do, aside from mentions of going to Oxford. I think EBD had trouble figuring out what to do with her once she was no longer a sweet schoolgirl.

#57:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:17 am
    —
jennifer wrote:
I could see her with a nice young teacher or professor, or, if she were Protestant, with a minister. She'd certainly make an ideal pastor's wife.



Considering that EBD is so concerned with religion, I'm surprised that we don't see more ministers/priests/nuns in the book. From what's said when Len and co are in quarantine in Theodora, it seems that there are nuns nursing at the San - even though the Oberland in the 1950s was overwhelmingly Protestant - but they're never mentioned anywhere else. There's a Mr Eastley who's the Anglican chaplain at the Sonnalpe in the Tyrol years, but we don't hear much about him, and there's a brief reference in one of the Plas Howell books to an Anglican vicar and a Catholic priest who know each other from theological college and take services at/for the school sometimes, but they're never mentioned in detail. Frieda's Bishop great-uncle turns up occasionally, and Joyce Linton's married to a vicar, but we don't hear much about them.

I'm not saying that I'd like to see a load of religion-based stuff: I just find it a bit strange that we don't see religious ministers coming round to comfort people in times of trouble etc.

#58:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:24 am
    —
Alison H wrote:
I'm not saying that I'd like to see a load of religion-based stuff: I just find it a bit strange that we don't see religious ministers coming round to comfort people in times of trouble etc.


Ahhh, but who needs the local minister when one has a selection of Great Doctors on tap? Very Happy

Seriously, it is a bit strange that a school where faith is taken seriously has so little to do with the local churches / ministers. I was joking above, but maybe EBD (with her great reverence for doctors) felt that there were enough male authority figures around what with the doctors and all, and that her all-female world didn't need any more men to potentially undermine the authority of the doctors and school mistresses.

I wonder if there would have been more vicars in evidence if she had remained CofE? Because then they would be potential husband material. Priests not being available, naturally.

#59:  Author: RóisínLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:11 pm
    —
I think EBD had no experience of an adult person who was in any way as sweet or as innocent as Robin had been as a child - she was at a loss as to how to develop the character - so packed her off to be a nun. I'm glad she didn't die, really. A nun is a career option that we don't really see described elsewhere in the CS world - Luigia dies and the series ends before Margot gets a chance.

Had she not been a nun, but stayed living, she might have been a great languages teacher. Something like Jeanne de Lachenais (sp?) - a demure, French doyenne of the staff.

#60:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:08 am
    —
I think it would have been odd if there weren't any nuns among CS girls, given the tenor of the school. It was a far more common career path for women at the time, and the religious life was portrayed quite positively in "wholesome" films and novels. Given that, Robin and Margot were fairly obvious choices for the saintly-religious and bad-girl-becomes-outstanding-nun roles, respectively.

#61:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:11 am
    —
There's also Tom Gay who follows a religious vocation, albeit CoE. She strikes me as one who also regards her career as a vocation, and she is doing socially based missionary work.

For her, her choices fit her totally, but she's not at all in the saintly nun mode as far as personality goes.

#62:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:19 pm
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I think Tom Gay's career is one of the best ones in the book.

Has anyone ever seen a lovely film set in an American convent school about two Bad Girls who eventually reform and one becomes a nun? It's a really good film and the nuns are lovely. (In a film made nowadays of course they'd all be lesbians and child abusers.)



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