growing up
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#1: growing up Author: Laura VLocation: Czech Republic PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:07 pm
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I was just wondering what the principals were on teaching girls about *growing up* in the Chalet School era. As a progressive school would the School have taught the girls about such issues?

#2:  Author: LizBLocation: Oxon, England PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:18 pm
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Well there were the domestic science classes, which were aiming to teach the girls how to be good housewives, not just cooking.

We don't see the biological side being dealt with.

#3:  Author: PatLocation: Doncaster PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:35 pm
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I would guess not, not at the time they were written anyway. I was in school in the 60s and it was covered in biology, so only that approach, and very embarrassing it was too. Anything else was left to parents.

#4:  Author: RroseSelavyLocation: Oxford, UK PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:30 pm
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What would have been covered in "Hygiene"? I always wondered if that would include veiled allusions to (whisper it!) periods etc.

#5:  Author: RóisínLocation: Gaillimh PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:39 pm
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I would have thought that was a field covered by Matron. I'm not sure where or how though Confused

#6:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:02 pm
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Róisín wrote:
I would have thought that was a field covered by Matron. I'm not sure where or how though Confused


That gives me a mental picture of Matey explaining the facts of life to terrified middles Shocked

#7:  Author: RóisínLocation: Gaillimh PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:21 pm
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Well, I was thinking maybe while they were kept in with her on the Saturday night mending, she could have explained things on a one-to-one basis if there was a need ie if the girl had starting menstruating, say. Matron was the one responsible for their health after all.

#8:  Author: Elder in OntarioLocation: Ontario, Canada PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:25 pm
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Pat wrote:

Quote:
I would guess not, not at the time they were written anyway. I was in school in the 60s and it was covered in biology, so only that approach, and very embarrassing it was too. Anything else was left to parents
.

That was the same for me in the '50s, Pat. We were taught such facts as 'they' thought we needed to know in our first year senior school biology class by an unmarried teacher who was clearly embarrassed by the whole procedure. Mind you, my mother had also nearly died with embarrassment trying to enlighten me on the possible advent of (whisper) periods a few months earlier!!

#9:  Author: MiriamLocation: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:26 pm
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Róisín wrote:
Well, I was thinking maybe while they were kept in with her on the Saturday night mending, she could have explained things on a one-to-one basis if there was a need ie if the girl had starting menstruating, say. Matron was the one responsible for their health after all.


We hear more about the naughty middles, but there must have been some who were well behaved, and didn't have to spend saturday night with Matron. Unless you are suggesting that there was a secret plot to arrange that every middle should be kept in at least once, under any excuse the prefects could find, so that Matron could have had a lottle chat with her. Rolling Eyes


In my school the science staff were allowed to prewsent the fgacts only when they were required for an exam syllabus - normally the year before GCSE's. Anything else was meant to to be covered by the Jewish Studies staff - and as far as I can remember they avioded the issue entirely. My mother could count on me to read anything, and one day she told me that she had brought me a new book about growing up. That was when I learnt about periods, and my mother never broached the subject again. I don't know how she dealt with my sisters, who weren't such avid readers. And this was only about fifteen years ago.

#10:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:14 pm
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At my grammar school in the mid '60s, human reproduction was part of the second year biology syllabus - ie at age 12-13. Textbooks in all subjects were collected by the school at the end of each year and reissued to the next year's students. The biology textbooks for that year all fell open at the same page...

Jay B.

#11:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:38 pm
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Róisín wrote:
Matron was the one responsible for their health after all.


Actually, she seems to vary between health and more general house-keeping. Nurse seems to have been more responsible for general health, at least in the later books.

#12:  Author: TaraLocation: Malvern, Worcestershire PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:44 pm
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We did rabbits. We never got as far as people - even for GCSE. Most of our information was garbled tales in the playground. That was 1958-65. Periods were never mentioned at all. Shocked

#13:  Author: tiffinataLocation: melbourne, australia PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:54 pm
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We did chickens and how they developed.

Anything else was expected to be taught by parents as 'christian values'.

This was in the mid 1980's. The school refused to teach anything other than adam and eve, but the parents committee pushed hard and the compromise was the chickens!

#14:  Author: ChangnoiLocation: Milwaukee, USA PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:26 am
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Since a lot of the students seem to have "bilious attacks", which have often seemed to me to be reasonably synoymous with menstrual cramps, perhaps when they are suffering their first menstruation-related bilious attack, Matey could explain THOSE facts of life.

I doubt she'd relate it to procreation, though. Just, "This is your period; you'll have it every month until you're 50. Here's what to do."

Chang

#15:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:46 am
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Changnoi wrote:
I doubt she'd relate it to procreation, though. Just, "This is your period; you'll have it every month until you're 50. Here's what to do."


She certainly wouldn't have said it that bluntly! Shocked Think of all the euphemisms that were so common - she would have used one of those, at the very least!

#16:  Author: PadoLocation: Connecticut, USA PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:20 am
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When my mother first got her period - at boarding school in Ireland in the 1930s - she had no idea. She actually thought she was bleeding to death. Shocked

And her father was a doctor!

#17:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:16 am
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My mom got left a pamphlet on her dresser.

When I was in elementary and high school (80s) we had a pretty good program - we started with chickens and frogs, worked our way up to where babies came from, covered puberty issues at about age 11 (separate groups for boys and girls) and got the full version of where babies came from (with this really cool video from inside the body during conception and pregnancy) plus sexually transmitted diseases, birth control, condoms and AIDs in high school.

The best sex ed video I ever saw was actually at church camp Shocked It had accurate information, but it was presented in a matter of fact but very humorous manner.

#18:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:14 am
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Pado wrote:
When my mother first got her period - at boarding school in Ireland in the 1930s - she had no idea. She actually thought she was bleeding to death. Shocked

Likewise at home in the late 60s, and I can't say the terror evoked more explanation than a brusque "Here. Use this." out of my mother. Even high school never gave any practical information, though there were a few diagrams of abstruse hormone producing body parts. They did sneak a birth control pamphlet into the freshman orientation packet at the university -- no public mention, of course. I suspect there'd have been a furor if the voters found out such a thing had been done at a public institution.

#19:  Author: patmacLocation: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:54 am
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Ditto at school in the '50s, it was never mentioned. I did Human Biology as an 'O' level while in the Lower Sixth as part of the Nursing Prelim and it was never even mentioned in that. I had an unusual mother who told me - though also said I shouldn't tell anyone else.

I do remember that menstruation was often referred to as 'the curse' - I wonder now if it was seen as a direct result of Eve's original sin? I think some of the problem was that it was considered too like the animals because man (sic) was considered above animals.

Oddly enough, I've written about it in VB (not posted yet) using something I was told by someone who went to a boys' boarding school.

#20:  Author: KatherineLocation: London, UK PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:11 am
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Miriam wrote:

We hear more about the naughty middles, but there must have been some who were well behaved, and didn't have to spend saturday night with Matron. Unless you are suggesting that there was a secret plot to arrange that every middle should be kept in at least once, under any excuse the prefects could find, so that Matron could have had a lottle chat with her. Rolling Eyes


Sometimes people do seem to get awful harsh punishments considering the crime. Perhaps there were a few trumped up charges so the good ones could be sent to Matey for a talk!

#21:  Author: RóisínLocation: Gaillimh PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:43 pm
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KB wrote:
Róisín wrote:
Matron was the one responsible for their health after all.


Actually, she seems to vary between health and more general house-keeping. Nurse seems to have been more responsible for general health, at least in the later books.


Is Nurse even present before the Swiss books?

#22:  Author: Laura VLocation: Czech Republic PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:45 pm
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Changnoi wrote
Quote:
Since a lot of the students seem to have "bilious attacks", which have often seemed to me to be reasonably synoymous with menstrual cramps, perhaps when they are suffering their first menstruation-related bilious attack, Matey could explain THOSE facts of life.


I always thought of the infamous bilious attacks as being migraines but I've now changed my mind!

#23:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:48 pm
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Nurse is mentioned when Julie Lucy has appendicitis - in Bride, I think. I always feel sorry for the poor woman - she doesn't even seem to have a name Rolling Eyes !

#24:  Author: RóisínLocation: Gaillimh PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:50 pm
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I have to say I did always read 'bilious attack' as something menstrual.

#25:  Author: ChangnoiLocation: Milwaukee, USA PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:57 pm
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KB wrote:
Changnoi wrote:
I doubt she'd relate it to procreation, though. Just, "This is your period; you'll have it every month until you're 50. Here's what to do."


She certainly wouldn't have said it that bluntly! Shocked Think of all the euphemisms that were so common - she would have used one of those, at the very least!


I was in a hurry when I typed it. Very Happy I was picturing something as close to "Shut your eyes and think of England" as I could, but for menstruation. Sort of a gentle-but-firm "All women have this; you'll have it 'till you're older" and then a "Here, use this, take some Dispirin and stop blubbering about it" with perhaps a reference to spineless jellyfish thrown in. If the girl still wouldn't see reason--and I can see some of them, like Tom Gay and Jack Lambert, being very upset about the changes their bodies were going through--I can then see them being sent to talk it out with Miss Annersley, who would give them a wonderfully vague but seriously intoned lectured about God's plan for them as women, but not exactly why it necessitated bleeding once a month and growing hips.

Chang

#26:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:59 pm
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There was a mistress (Joan Bertram?) who had bilious attacks two or three times a term IIRC - ie once a month or so, which would fit with 'bilious attack' being code for menstrual problems. I think they took her into San to sort her out - yet another area of medicine that the doctors there seem to know all about.

Jay B.

#27:  Author: catherineLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:38 pm
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Of course there was always Joey ... Wink


I often wondered how they managed, bearing in mind how much Games they had to do and how many rambles etc. they had and the expeditions. Also Lake Thun. How did the staff cope, especially when they were new ... they were expected to go on as many expeditions as the girls were. And then there were the various unexpected stays in barns / on coaches etc.

#28:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:59 pm
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I don't know how they managed in barns etc, even just for normal toilet "use"!

#29:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:04 pm
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But they didn't need to go, did they? Wink

Or I suppose a handy bush was used and never referred to! Laughing

#30:  Author: MiaLocation: London PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:10 pm
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JayB wrote:
There was a mistress (Joan Bertram?) who had bilious attacks two or three times a term IIRC - ie once a month or so, which would fit with 'bilious attack' being code for menstrual problems. I think they took her into San to sort her out - yet another area of medicine that the doctors there seem to know all about.


They all have their babies at the San, don't they? It must have diversified into the field of Obs-Gyn!

#31:  Author: PollyLocation: Essex PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:49 pm
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Lesley wrote:
But they didn't need to go, did they? Wink

Or I suppose a handy bush was used and never referred to! Laughing


Oh flip! You beat me too it, Lesley! Laughing

#32:  Author: Ruth BLocation: Oxford, UK PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:31 pm
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jennifer wrote:
The best sex ed video I ever saw was actually at church camp Shocked It had accurate information, but it was presented in a matter of fact but very humorous manner.


Lucky you! We got shown a video that advised us "don't touch anything you don't have." I discussed this in later years with a bunch of friends who had been brought up evangelical and were gay/bi. We all decided that gave us a licence to do pretty much what we liked! Laughing Embarassed

The school (also church linked) didn't even teach us enough to answer the biology paper in our GCSE, which was all evolution and reproduction.

The closest I can remember to a "growing up" reference in EBD is in Joey and Co in Tirol where Len is described as not having "that awkwardness that afflicts children of her age", or something like that.

#33:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:38 pm
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My school, which was very conservative in most ways, seems to've been quite progressive about that sort of thing by the standards of the late '80s/early '90s. We got told a lot of stuff by our science teacher when we were in the first year, and then we got lessons on contraception by a religious studies teacher (not sure what it had to do with religious studies!) in a kind of PSHE (? or is it PHSE?) type lesson in the fourth year.

#34:  Author: ClareLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:08 pm
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Alison H wrote:
We got told a lot of stuff by our science teacher when we were in the first year, and then we got lessons on contraception by a religious studies teacher (not sure what it had to do with religious studies!) in a kind of PSHE (? or is it PHSE?) type lesson in the fourth year.


Hehe, I'm an RE teacher and guess what's coming up in the next couple of weeks for me! We teach contraception as part of the sanctity of life (with the disclaimer "This is what the Church says... but if you are going out this weekend, make sure you use protection!" One pupil was very open about his relationship Rolling Eyes Too much information!) We also have to teach the relationships side of sex. The science teachers in my school say they do not envy me when we do that!

Therefore, when I'm signing up for PSHE topics I avoid the units on 'growing up' and relationships. I do enough of it already.

#35:  Author: LulieLocation: Middlesbrough PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:35 pm
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My sister had to teach sex education at her old school (she's a science teacher) and asked my advice. She wasn't over-impressed when I offered to make her a knitted womb as a visual aid Laughing

#36:  Author: DawnLocation: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:38 pm
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Lulie wrote:
My sister had to teach sex education at her old school (she's a science teacher) and asked my advice. She wasn't over-impressed when I offered to make her a knitted womb as a visual aid Laughing


Laughing Laughing Laughing

We did a "Sex, Drugs, Rock & Roll" with the teenage group and one of the staff who was a real "jack the lad" was meant to do the session with the pretty pink plastic penis and the condoms and bananas. but he got really embarrassed (which was hilarious in iteself) and I ended up doing it. We also had several annonymous questions sessions and I discoverd I don't get embarressed quite as easily as I thought I did. Laughing

#37:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:45 am
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Clare wrote:
Too much information!) We also have to teach the relationships side of sex. The science teachers in my school say they do not envy me when we do that!


I think that's the part that even good programs miss. You can teach kids about contraception, STDs, pregnancy and so on, but they also need to know how to use the information in real life.

If I were writing a sex-ed course, along with complete and accurate physical information it would also concentrate on the emotional side of things and have sections on date rape, emotional and physical abuse, the role of alcohol and drugs in sexual behavior, how to say no if not ready for a sexual relationship and how to respect someone else saying no. The emotions and urges that go with sex are really powerful even in the teens, and if we want to teach kids to say no, or to use appropriate contraception when they say yes they have to have the emotional and mental tools to do so.

#38:  Author: RuthLocation: Physically: Lincolnshire, England. Inwardly: The Isle of Skye PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:26 pm
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My school didn't do Sex education (that was 10 years ago).

#39:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:29 pm
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My school did do sex ed, but not to my class as we were deemed "too immature". In fairness, the majority of my class were extremely immature and idiotic, but surely they needed it more in that case!

#40:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:28 pm
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What horrifies me is that a lot of girls seem to believe that if they are on the pill, they are protected against STD's, and some of them have never heard of chlamydia or any of the others STD's.

#41:  Author: Rosy-JessLocation: Gloucestershire-London-Aberystwyth PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:31 am
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My school did do sex-ed, though the humiliation of anything to do with those classes was, frankly, enough to put you off sex for life.

There was a great story about one girl who had been through sex-ed classes at her school, and still fell pregnant - she was most confused as to why since she'd been very careful to put the condom on the banana....

#42:  Author: Joan the DwarfLocation: Er, where am I? PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:12 am
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I had this book for as long as I could read:
Where did I come from?
And then about age 9 I got this one:
What's happening to me?.
They are both superb and gave me tonnes of info that I needed, especially as the one time I tried to talk to mother (about orgasms, iirc) she got hugely embarrassed and told me to go away. I never tried doing that again!

I remember "the" talk on periods to all the girls in the final year of primary school (20 years ago). This was remarkable on two fronts. Firstly, there was the fact that parents had been invited. So most of the girls had their mums there. My parents hadn't twigged that "parent" was PC code for "mum" and... my dad turned up!

Then there was the anonymous question session. This was the primary school where only one of the cubicles in the girls' loos had a sanitary bin. No-one would use that cubicle "because people will think you've, you know, started your periods". I considered this insane, and said so loudly when skipping the loo queue and using that cubicle. So my anonymous question was why people made fun of people having their periods. The response from the woman who made her living from going around schools giving these talks? "That's a silly question. No-one does that. You, " pointing to somone in the front row, "Do you make fun of people because of their periods?" girl, frightened, shakes head. "What about you?" picking on another who also shakes her head, of course. "Well, there you are then." Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad

At least there were no issues at boarding school. The main bathroom in the girls' boarding house had a stack of tampons and pads on a shelf, with a notice to take what you needed if there was an emergency.

Edited to add: I've just remembered that the Samaritans were set up because a young girl had her first period, thought she was horribly ill, and killed herself. IIRC, the priest who took her funeral wanted to make sure this never happened again.



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