The CBB :: View topic - Taking advantage of the fine weather

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#1: Taking advantage of the fine weather Author: Maeve, Location: Romania

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:33 am
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This is from Challenge, but variations of it occur in many of the other books.

Quote:

The authorities took prompt advantage of the fine weather and the girls were out-of-doors as much as possible. Even some afternoon classes were cut to make opportunities for extra games and brisk walks....Evelyn commented on this one day to Lesley. “We never cut lessons at my last school except for the most frightfully important things,” she remarked. “Here we seem to get off quite a lot – in the afternoons, at any rate.”
Lesley grinned. “You wait until the really bad weather comes and then you’ll see,” she returned feelingly. “No slacking at work then, my dear! We make up for lost time then.”

What I've never understood is:
a) how they managed to cram all the classes they had skipped in the good weather into the timetable when the weather was bad;
b) why this abrupt change to a much more intensive schedule wasn't considered bad for all the delicate girls attending the school, and also, why the girls didn't gripe much more about it and act up;
c) how the teachers managed to re-arrange their syllabi (sp?) so accommodatingly.

Thoughts, comments?

*Maeve having a very slow Monday*

#2: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:48 am
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Well, I've never really understood it either...!!

But... it is clear in the Tyrol years at least that they do all their academic classes in the mornings, and that the afternoons are left for the non-academic things like singing, art, music lessons, needlework, games etc. Maybe, just maybe, if they still adopted that pattern, it would just about work out. Perhaps.

Caroline (who knows that the truth is that EBD didn't think this (or any other of her quirks of timetabling) through at all... And who also knows that EBD's statements in the Tyrol books about academic stuff in the mornings only doesn't actually hold true what with full days doing cookery and full days in the Chemmy lab and so on...)

#3: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:55 am
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I always wished our school'd cancelled lessons when the weather was good! Or when it was snowing, and let us out for snowball fights. Must've played havoc with the CS teachers' plans though, not to mention all the inconvenience caused to the domestic staff.

I don't think they went in very much for lesson planning at the CS ...

#4: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:11 pm
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Alison H wrote:

I don't think they went in very much for lesson planning at the CS ...

We don't see much of it, anyway, apart from when e.g. Joey takes over Miss Stewart's history classes or Bill talks about a certain text book not being available.

Actually, thinking about it, I've no idea how prescriptive the syllabi were for the different subjects back in those days... You've also got to consider that for most of the years EBD described, they sat so many fewer exams than we do now - 5 or 6 subjects at most, compared to our 10+ at school cert / O level / GCSE age. Wouldn't that mean they've actually got much less ground to cover than a GCSE group today?

Add to that there's also the fact that each girl could be put in for her exams when she was ready, rather that it all automatically happening in the 5th Form year (or whatever the modern equiv is - year 11?) and it all makes for a much more relaxed and flexible system than these days.

#5: Author: Joan the Dwarf, Location: Er, where am I?

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:28 pm
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I think I always considered it not so much as they had extra lessons during bad weather, but that there was the expectation then that they would devote all their energies to the timetable, and no excuses for not working would be taken.

#6: Author: Travellers Joy, Location: Middle of Nowhere

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:07 pm
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Joan the Dwarf wrote:

I think I always considered it not so much as they had extra lessons during bad weather, but that there was the expectation then that they would devote all their energies to the timetable, and no excuses for not working would be taken.

Yes, that's how I'd always read it too. Mind you, if they didn't have a very heavy workload at the best of times (on health grounds: the doctors prescribed healthy living and being out of doors as much as possible for all the girls, not just those with relatives in the San; and they had the final say on health matters!), one might wonder why the girls need two hours for prep - no wonder the middles got bored and played up!

#7: Author: Catherine, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:01 pm
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Travellers Joy wrote:

... one might wonder why the girls need two hours for prep - no wonder the middles got bored and played up!

Didn't they have afternoon prep as well sometimes? I could never understand how the Middles filled an hour and a half of prep if they had also had afternoon prep ... especially considering they were expected to devote half an hour to each subject, even if that was only two sums ...

#8: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:41 pm
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I thought it would depend on age (insofar as EBD thought it out at all). The younger girls did some prep before Kaffee and had a shorter prep period after, to allow time for play before Abendessen, Prayers and bedtime, whereas the older ones did all their prep after Kaffee, because they had free time after Abendessen. The Sixth also sometimes have lectures/coaching after Kaffee, don't they?

#9: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:47 pm
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Sounds about right to me - and I think the hours of prep went up as you went up the school. There was a maximum of two hours for the seniors, I think.

For the younger girls there'd be a broader range of stuff, too - not all written work. They had to do things like learn a poem or draw a map, didn't they, and maybe read a chapter of the text book or the next chapter of the literature book they were studying. So, there is some variety involved...

Also, I guess after always having done prep that way since the age of, what, 8?, you would to some extent learn how to sit still for a couple of hours... most of the time, anyway.

#10: Author: Katherine, Location: London, UK

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:28 pm
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Maybe the staff planned only eight lessons for what on paper looked like ten. That way there would be some flex when the sun did come out/it was time for snowball fights.

I also get the feeling that there is far more focus on following a syllabus these days. My mum is a teacher and one of the things she bemoans about modern teaching is the way you can’t just go off-piste in a lesson because a class is interested in something and you want to stop and focus on that. It’s all about sticking rigidly to the lesson plan. She is also driven crazy by too much teaching to the exam. This is all stuff that has changed since the 70s, my mum only stared teaching in the 70s, so after EBD’s death) I suspect that when EDB was actually teaching that there was much more freedom for her to do her own thing. I imaging this was changing a bit by the time the later books were published though, but not to the extent that it has today.

#11: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:03 pm
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They had to teach to a syllabus for O and A levels. O level work began in the fourth year, Lower Fifth in EBD terms. But from what I recall of my schooldays, they expected to have completed the syllabus by Christmas of the fifth year for O levels, Christmas of the Upper Sixth for A levels.

Mock exams happened in January, then in the spring term and first part of the summer term leading up to the exams class time was devoted to revision and reinforcement of the syllabus. So teachers had a certain amount of leeway for digression from the syllabus - depending on how fast they got through it and how much revision time they expected to need post mocks!

#12: Author: Catherine, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:47 pm
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JayB wrote:

I thought it would depend on age (insofar as EBD thought it out at all). The younger girls did some prep before Kaffee and had a shorter prep period after, to allow time for play before Abendessen, Prayers and bedtime, whereas the older ones did all their prep after Kaffee, because they had free time after Abendessen. The Sixth also sometimes have lectures/coaching after Kaffee, don't they?

I can't remember exactly but I'm sure in one of the later books, it says the Middles have an hour and a half of prep with half an hour free before Abendessen. The Seniors have two hours prep.

#13: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:06 pm
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Katherine wrote:

I also get the feeling that there is far more focus on following a syllabus these days. My mum is a teacher and one of the things she bemoans about modern teaching is the way you can’t just go off-piste in a lesson because a class is interested in something and you want to stop and focus on that. It’s all about sticking rigidly to the lesson plan.

I rather expect that the National Curriculum and the introduction of SATs has made a huge difference. Back when I was at school, in the 1960s, some teachers could be persuaded to go off-syllabus, others couldn't. I do remember our History teacher taking us right up to the then present day in one topic, although I can't now remember what it was - we only had to know up to somewhere like 1914, but she wanted to round it out in the 20th century. May well have been something like the unification of Germany - and back in the 1960s, nobody dreamt that Germany would one day be reunited!

#14: Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:41 pm
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Didn't they also have to devote a certain amount of prep time to 'rep'?

I remember being quite thrilled when I visited Mary Hare before going and being told that in Year 10/fourth form I would have to do prep in school (ie, in a classroom under teacher supervision) instead of in the house/dormitory with no super. It sounded so CSish.

Two hours prep time for the Sixth is laughable, but I suppose if you factor in their free time, plus the fact that in some subjects they seem to get individual tuition (Len and languages, for example) it's more plausible. When I was in the Sixth, I was expected to do two hours in the art room, then go to evening prep between 7pm and 9pm in addition to my free periods. In reality, this meant watching 'Countdown', 'Fifteen to One' and 'Neighbours' before early supper, evening prep, and last minute art panic. Oh well...

I think the CS timetable had to be very flexible anyway, given the school's trilingual approach. I'm never quite sure how that would work for O'levels, though I suppose you have extra German on German days, extra French on French days, lots of English/Literature on English days. For other subjects it wouldn't matter so much.... but I would hate to be Rosalie, especially if you then also have to work out special tuition for various pupils and aggh! A nightmare.

#15: Author: Tara, Location: Malvern, Worcestershire

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:51 pm
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Also there's such a lot of change now, needing constant preparation of new material. When I was at school (Grammar School 1958-65) our staff had clearly taught the same thing (perfectly well, I hastily add) for years. Our History mistress used practically to blow the dust off her notes before beginning! And, as Katherine said, it has all become much, much more prescriptive and target-focused. There are good things about that, of course. I started teaching as EBD stopped writing, and a lot of teaching then was pretty fuzzy round the edges. On t'other hand, I should be driven mad by the rules that seem to make every lesson follow the same pattern these days. I want to be able to wander in rootling round in my enormous bag and murmuring 'Qu'est-ce qu'il y a dans mon sac?', without having to stop and write my whatever-they're-calleds on the board!

#16: Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:38 am
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Learning objectives? rofl

They always sound so silly too in a plan. Children should be able to...
...spell Hitler's name. Or, in some cases, their own. And then when you need to be able to tick off literacy, numeracy (organise cards was always my main one), ICT, communication and something else.

And I never did understand the point of a plenary session.

Thank goodness no-one ever wanted to see my paperwork when I was teaching at Queen's last semester!

#17: Author: liberty, Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:36 am
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There still is a certain amount of time available to go off topic, especially lower down the school. It's harder with A level and AS as, under this style of examination, you only really get two terms of teaching. However, the rest is fine. I sometimes go off topic or change lessons in my History lessons. I also take them out onto the field if its nice as I teach in a ridiculously hot room. That means changing lessons as it can be quite hard to write.

Our school also has an amazing amount of time off timetable as well for various events like commem, House events, etc. Although it is a grammar school so you can go through stuff much faster.

#18: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:57 pm
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Catherine wrote:

I can't remember exactly but I'm sure in one of the later books, it says the Middles have an hour and a half of prep with half an hour free before Abendessen. The Seniors have two hours prep.

I did some research on preparation when I was writing Peace and found that the times of prep varied massively according to what was required for the relevant storyline. It's a mildly amusing study if you have several hours to spare...

#19: Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:58 am
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Actually, an hour and a half for Middle school prep sounds about right. We had two hours of supervised prep in fourth form.... but I can well believe that CS times varied. It doesn't help that they seem to do prep at the oddest times as well, not just in the conventional after school slot. Don't some people have prep time before Mittagessen in some books, with other slots before and (I think) after Abendessen as well?

#20: Author: LauraMcC, Location: St Andrews or Kinross

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:06 pm
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In fact, when you think about all the lessons that they missed because of the lovely weather etc, they possibly would have ended up with more prep time than actual teaching time! Rolling Eyes

Quote:

There still is a certain amount of time available to go off topic, especially lower down the school. It's harder with A level and AS as, under this style of examination, you only really get two terms of teaching. However, the rest is fine. I sometimes go off topic or change lessons in my History lessons. I also take them out onto the field if its nice as I teach in a ridiculously hot room. That means changing lessons as it can be quite hard to write.

When I was at school, we often deviated from the syllabus, even when I was a fifth and sixth former (and that wasn't so long ago Very Happy

). The teachers would often break off from the subject matter to talk about whatever interested them (my Higher Economics teacher, thought that it would be fun to spend a lesson discussing the bible), and during my Advanced Higher German class in particular we would often (well, sometimes) spend our periods watching German comedies, or playing German grammar games on the computer. Yes, we did learn something from it, but it wasn't directly related to the syllabus. And I shall never forgot my first year German teacher, who could often be persuaded to talk about the Navy for most of the lesson, rather than teaching us new vocab... Very Happy

But, then, I suppose that every school is different.

#21: Author: Rosalin, Location: Swansea

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:56 pm
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Our finest moment in GCSE History was when we got through the whole double period without opening our books because we had kept the teacher talking. The topics were always tangental to what we were studying but not on the syllabus.

#22: Author: Lisa_T, Location: Belfast

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:16 am
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One of our English teachers could always be persuaded to talk about his ailments, which were many and varied. This was funnier than it sounds, as he was a very eccentric man. He also had a bad heart, and at this time was still living on-site. I remember him telling us that he'd slept in one morning, and was later informed that one of the senior staff had told the IT teacher to "run over and make sure David is still alive." We thought that was hilarious, although I suppose it wasn't really. Distracting our history teacher wasn't a good idea, though. Like Nell Wilson, she was past mistress of sarcasm. Unfortunately, it was usually wasted since deaf people aren't usually very good at picking up finer nuances in tone. Then again, she may have done a Verity and gotten away with more! Laughing

Back on track though, the CS girls don't seem to have deliberated sabotaged their lessons in quite the same way, although I seem to remember a number of 'red herrings' being thrown to Biddy O'Ryan.

#23: Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:14 pm
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I sometimes think that EBD was trying to set a good example in her writing. Disrupting lessons was really frowned on, even by the girls.

#24: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:35 pm
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We actually ended up complaining about one of our teachers because she spent all her time telling us her life history and we got next to nothing done in lessons! It might have seemed wonderful if we'd been younger and not worried about getting the grades needed for university, but over 30 of us were taking her subject for A-level and we ended up having to do a load of extra reading ourselves because by the time the Head took action - a lot of parents complained - we were a long way behind in the syllabus. We felt bad about it because she was a lovely person, but it was so bad that we were all genuinely worried that we were going to end up failing our exams and missing out on uni places.

She left the school the following year: I hope she did better in her next job!

#25: Author: JS, Location: Perthshire

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:34 pm
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Quote:

We actually ended up complaining about one of our teachers because she spent all her time telling us her life history and we got next to nothing done in lessons!

Shades of Miss Jean Brodie.............Was she in her prime?

#26: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:20 pm
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Alison H wrote:

We actually ended up complaining about one of our teachers because she spent all her time telling us her life history and we got next to nothing done in lessons!

Our entire sociology class in sixth form (in fact two classes, about 35 people all told) had to resit their first paper because that's all the teacher did with us. I scraped a C and was the only person to get a grade - the rest had U's!

Regarding making the most of the fine weather... I wish I could, my class room was like an oven today! Even with all of the windows and the door open.

#27: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:07 am
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What does U stand for? *curious*

#28: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:14 am
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U stands for unclassified.

Not sure if there still is, but I vaguely recall there being an "N" that came between the bottom grade and U ... can't remember what that stood for now. Near miss?!

*Off to look it up."

ETA - apparently it was dropped in 2000, but it quite genuinely did stand for "Near miss". Who on earth thought that one up?

#29: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:36 am
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Laughing

#30: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:27 pm
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I actually did see a colleague die, or near enough. I happened to be glancing out of my classroom window and saw a car moving very erratically over the playing fields then come to a halt. I sent a pupil to tell the Head what I'd seen, and to ask him to look out of his window. He did, then phoned the emergency services, but the man was dead.

#31: Author: Bethannie, Location: West Midlands, England

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:50 pm
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My mother is German and was at school during the 1920s and 30s. Most German schools back then had school lessons in the morning only. They covered the whole of the academic syllabus between 8:30 and 13:00 and the afternoons were given over to prep - done at home for most pupils, art, gymnastics, sports, handicrafts et.c

I was educated both in England and Germany, and don't feel the academic standards were lower in those schools where we only had morning 'lessons' . It meant that we could have afternoon rehearsals for concerts/performances - very reminiscent of the CS!

I suppose that the CS could have reworked lessons to this sort of timetable, so that academic lessons would still be done.

#32: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:13 pm
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In Island (which I was reading last night) we are told that the girls are to have a picnic one week day afternoon - this is when they get the rowing boats presented to them by Joey and Co:

Quote:

Most of the girls only realised that they were to have a picnic instead of the needlework, art, games, and silent reading or preparation which were the general order of the day.

Elsewhere in the book, Bride complains to the Head about her form not being allowed to go shopping in Carnbach and is told (this is a Wednesday; Bride is Lower Fifth, so studying for her school cert):

Quote:

We decided to send [your form] yesterday as it was a more or less free afternoon for you—only needlework and prep.

So, it seems pretty clear that (when it suits EBD), the afternoons are for non-academic subjects for pretty much the whole school. And they are definitely sitting proper exams by this point in the series.

#33: Author: Rosie, Location: Land of Three-Quarters Sky

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:07 pm
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Bethannie wrote:

My mother is German and was at school during the 1920s and 30s. Most German schools back then had school lessons in the morning only. They covered the whole of the academic syllabus between 8:30 and 13:00 and the afternoons were given over to prep - done at home for most pupils, art, gymnastics, sports, handicrafts et.c

Think this was the case when I went on a school exchange to Germany in 2001 - we started very early but went home at lunchtime! And I don't think it was just because we were on an exchange either, though we did spend the afternoon on trips and things!

#34: Author: Lolly, Location: Back in London

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:22 pm
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Alison H wrote:

ETA - apparently it was dropped in 2000, but it quite genuinely did stand for "Near miss". Who on earth thought that one up?

Are you serious?

Oh well, that makes me feel so much better about my Latin A level...seeing as I NEARLY passed it! Laughing

#35: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Leeds

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:39 pm
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'N' was still around in 2001, as my boyfriend got it for General Studies A Level. Not really sure what the point of it was - if you've failed, you've failed. You don't need two grades in the fail section.

#36: Author: LauraMcC, Location: St Andrews or Kinross

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:29 pm
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That sounds just like the D grade for Highers and Advanced Highers, which was classified as being "almost a pass", ie it was a fail but still above the unclassified grade. I never saw the point of it either, you've still failed the subject, so why bother pretending? Although I suppose that it may make the student feel better, if they get 49%, and so were so close to a C!

#37: Author: Miriam, Location: Jerusalem, Israel

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:52 pm
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Sarah_L wrote:

'N' was still around in 2001, as my boyfriend got it for General Studies A Level. Not really sure what the point of it was - if you've failed, you've failed. You don't need two grades in the fail section.

It could be meant to be encouraging if you were thinking about resitting. Stating that you were nearly there, and only need a bit of extra work, as opposed to a U, which we always translated as 'so awful they gave up marking it'.

#38: Author: Catrin, Location: Durham

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:01 pm
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Yes, people at my school were allowed to resit upper sixth if they had Ns, or all Es, but not if they had Us.

Sounds a little like a singing lesson . . .

#39: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:36 pm
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LauraMcC wrote:

Although I suppose that it may make the student feel better, if they get 49%, and so were so close to a C!

That would make me feel worse!

There are three fail grades in the Irish exam system, E, F and NG. NG means No Grade and you really have to do nothing to get that.

It never occurred to me before, but it doesn't make any sense, does it... if you fail, you fail!

#40: Author: kramerkaren,

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:01 pm
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Quote:

thats funny to hear after growing up on the fact that according to EBD the education system is much more academically inclined in Germay, with very long hours and no games etc, only learning, learning and more learning. In one of the earlier books I think they even say that the girls in Germany would be expected to study until 17:00, with very little breaks and no comic releif whatsoever.

#41: Author: kate2414,

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:52 pm
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With regard to exam marks, did anyone see the thing in the paper today about how students about to sit their GCSEs and A levels have been told by the examinations regulator not to expect their marks to be accurate.

#42: All those missed lessons Author: judithR, Location: London

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:15 pm
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In my day (late 1960s), pass grades at A level were A - E. the fail grades were "O-Level pass", not very helpful as one usually had a pass in the subject to be able to take it at A-Level, the exception(at my school) being RE which wasn't an academic subject at O-Level and the "U" for Unclassified.

A propos the non-absolute marking scheme - when my niece received 100% for A-Level French (lit I think) even she said it was impossible!

:!: :!:

#43: Author: LizzieC, Location: Canterbury, UK

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:11 pm
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kate2414 wrote:

With regard to exam marks, did anyone see the thing in the paper today about how students about to sit their GCSEs and A levels have been told by the examinations regulator not to expect their marks to be accurate.

The article on the BBC is here. What it said is that they can not be 100% perfect or accurate. Which is true really, and just setting expectations as they should be. I mark GCSE history for Edexcel, and although there are checks on my work as I mark, not every paper can necessarily be marked to the same standard. There are grey areas, I may have an off day. Unfortunately I am not a robot (though if the exam boards could get robots to mark for them I'm sure they would - the pay is pretty lousy and the boards tend to like to cut costs in the wrong places... rant over).

The marking can be especially difficult on essay questions as there is no right or wrong answer and sometimes it can be a toss up as to the mark awarded, and if you ask several examiners what they would give a question you would probably get several different answers. Obviously standardisation is done to eliminate this some what (and key marking points and levels help), but with 3000+ answers to mark in a limited amount of time, quality sometimes suffers Sad

Sorry for the rant - touchy subject!

#44: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Leeds

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:38 pm
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There's more than one fail grade in Harry Potter. In fact, I think there's three pass grades (O, E and A) and then three fail grades (Poor, Dreadful, Troll).

#45: Re: All those missed lessons Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:26 pm
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judithR wrote:

In my day (late 1960s), pass grades at A level were A - E. the fail grades were "O-Level pass", not very helpful as one usually had a pass in the subject to be able to take it at A-Level, the exception(at my school) being RE which wasn't an academic subject at O-Level and the "U" for Unclassified.

A propos the non-absolute marking scheme - when my niece received 100% for A-Level French (lit I think) even she said it was impossible!

Exclamation

Hi Judith! Welcome to the forum Very Happy

#46: Author: Karry, Location: Stoke on Trent

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:24 am
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I took A Levels in 1976. I had an f in sociology which was a fail, an F in RE (which was not suprising, considering that we had a change of teacher half way through the course who had never taught Islam, which was the whole second paper) and an O in English, which was an O level grade for the paper!

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