The CBB :: View topic - the 'experienced traveller' in the world of the CS

Was she writing for an audience she could be sure would find the details of getting ready for the night in a French train fascinating? Also, why did none of the overnight journeys (that I can remember) ever involve them reserving a couchette?

When I worked in town I knew exactly where to stand on the platform so that the tram doors would open right in front of me .

I love him very much (2.5 weeks until the wedding!!!)...

...the porter came in and started brushing people.
Betsy watched closely and when her turn came didn't make any mistakes. He took her new red hat out of the bag and brushed it and she put it on. She stood up while he brushed the red and green sailor suit and wiped off her shoes. When he had helped her into her coat and furpiece, she gave him fifty cents and he said, "Thank you, miss. I hope you have a good time in Milwaukee with your friend Tib."

My brother lives in India more or less full time and my sister visited him with Dad and her SLOC. The carriages are crowded and men and women travel in seperate carriages. My sister started off by traveliing with everyone else but found it too uncomfortable to continue as everyone is packed in like sardines. (There is no personal space and it's worse than London). She ended up travelling in the women's carriage

Shander - re your knitting needles - might be worth checking whether the material makes a difference - they might let you use bamboo/wood but not metal/plastic...

I fail to see how a knitting needle is more dangerous than a lot of things you *are* allowed bring on board. Including glass bottles of alcohol that people buy in duty free.

I've just had to book flights to Avignon for a family occasion. Only direct flight was with Jet2, which looked reasonable (it's a low-cost airline which gets lots of awards). But when I actually booked I realised that the upfront fare quoted on the website didn't even include taxes, let alone baggage, fuel surcharge and so on.

I'd be interested to know how others have dealt with that

Would all CBBers in future please refrain from mentioning Nuneaton Station?

I have had to spend time there in the past two months, and a colder, barer, bleaker station does not exist. They have a bookshop and a coffee room, but they're not open, at all, as far as I can see.

Author:	Sunglass [ 28 May 2008, 08:22 ]
Post subject:	the 'experienced traveller' in the world of the CS
There are lots of lots of references to people being 'experienced' travellers in the CS - we're told that 'experienced Jo' helps to refasten the luggage at the douanerie at the start of Chalet, and the entire train journey at the beginning of Head Girl (when Miss Maynard, Joey, Grizel and Robin encounter the Stuffer and Maria), is all about the experience of the CS party, who have brought air-pillows and coffee with brandy in it for warmth, know how to roll themselves in rugs to keep warm, and widen the under-seats, and exchange their velour hats for soft tams to sleep in. (I don't know whether this was more to do with the respectability of wearing a hat in public, and a railway carriage still counting as semi-public, or whether wearing a soft hat to sleep in was to do with warmth?) What interested me was that as we've more or less lost the concept of the 'experienced traveller' - and cheap flights have largely replaced long-distance train journeys - what that actually stands for in the CS world, and why EBD refers to it so often and in such detail? Presumably some of this is because long-distance travel was far less common, no mass tourism and ideas about making things easy for a tourist, and compared to now travel did involve more endurance, know-how and organisation (no wheel-along cases - the CS girls are always juggling night-cases, rolls of rugs, picnic-baskets etcc - less predictable availability of food at all hours of day and night, less likelihood other nationalities will speak English, more dirt etc.) Did EBD travel a lot herself, and are these her personal travel tips, or would these notions have been commonplace? Was she writing for an audience she could be sure would find the details of getting ready for the night in a French train fascinating? Also, why did none of the overnight journeys (that I can remember) ever involve them reserving a couchette?

Author:	Alison H [ 28 May 2008, 09:15 ]
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I've just been reading Elsie's Womanhood in which a group of Americans travel round Europe. I don't think Martha Finley knew anything about Europe as her characters didn't seem to see any of the sights and apparently didn't even notice the united kingdom of Italy being proclaimed whilst they were there (I think she just packed them off to Italy so that they wouldn't be in America during the civil war ), but it made me think about the much better-written travels round Europe in What Katy Did Next. In the age of the Grand Tour, presumably there was always someone who'd done it all before to ask advice from. By the Bettanys' day, especially with schoolgirls like Grizel who wouldn't have been on a Grand Tour even had they lived at a different time, "experienced travellers" would have been less common: I think EBD was just trying to show how capable and organised the CS people were . According to Behind the Chalet School she didn't travel much at all: there are no records of her having had a passport until she got one to go to Pertisau (the First World War would partly account for that ... and of course the cost!).

Author:	Tor [ 28 May 2008, 09:54 ]
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I think that, despite the fact that so many of us travel these days, there are still obvious differences between experience travellers and inexperienced ones. For instance, I think that no 'experienced traveller' CS girl would today arrive at the airport without her hand luggage (overnight bag?) well packed, with her toiletries poured into 100ml bottles, neatly labelled and packed in a zip-lock plastic bag. They wouldn't be caught out in the security queue. And she would understand the difference between her ticket and her seat reservation slip on the train, and would never have an embarrassing discussion with a german ticket inspector (as I did) insisting this was my ticket... You can always spot those, on trains and planes, who glide through security, with their bags packed just-so, and who quickly unpack their necessary items from their bag for the journey, before slipping (the right sized bag) into the overhead locker and never needing to return to it for several hours. And who know they can order two drinks rather than one, and do so without looking like an alcoholic. It took me a long time to realize I could ask for wine and a bottle of sparkling water!!! I travel a lot (for fun and for PhD) and I have definitely refined my packing and travelling outfit over time. Think i have it down now. I even take my own PJ's for a long haul flight (well, comfy tracksuit pants) so I can change into them and get a good sleep, then change back into fresh clothes before arrival. Bit mad, but it really makes a difference. And a hooded top you can pull over you head for a little extra snuggleness (shades of a soft tam?). Blanket/Pillow and socks provided by the airline! But the big difference these days between really experienced travelers (and I don't fit into this group) is being able to adeptly negotiate public transport in various thrid world countries, understanding what you should pay, how much you should haggle, how long you have a various stop offs so you don't get left behind etc etc. I guess we have just moved the frontiers, and perhaps the CS girls of today would shame their Gap year peers with their travel skills?

Author:	JS [ 28 May 2008, 10:57 ]
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I read recently (either on the board or Behind the Chalet School) that EBD kept making her characters follow the same route to Europe as she had herself, via Paris and that she had clearly been travelling economy and so did her imaginary pupils. This was compared to Angela Brazil (I haven't read any of her books) who apparently always had her characters travelling first class with their own splendid train meals etc etc - presumably reflecting her own experience. Wasn't she rather rich and posh? Personally I ought to be an experienced traveller by now and am better than some, but I usually end up with at least a couple of items unworn on weekends away etc! There's a particular dress that's been to Avignon, Milan, Berlin and, erm, Leamington Spa, which didn't catch a glimpse of any of them! My friend always says she feels obliged to take a complete change of clothing, including shoes, in case she falls in a burn! Shades of guide camp.

Author:	JayB [ 28 May 2008, 18:33 ]
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Quote: Was she writing for an audience she could be sure would find the details of getting ready for the night in a French train fascinating? Also, why did none of the overnight journeys (that I can remember) ever involve them reserving a couchette? I imagine that very few of EBD's schoolgirl readers in the '20s and '30s would have been out of the UK, so the long train journeys would have seemed quite exotic. And train journeys and railway stations were quite a popular theme in novels and films; Murder on the Orient Express (and a couple of other Agatha Christies set partly on long distance trains), The Lady Vanishes, Night Train to Munich, Brief Encounter are a few that spring to mind. Changing the hat for a beret I think was partly for comfort, but also because the beret could be pulled down over the hair to keep it (relatively) clean and tidy - that soft coal that Continental trains always used. And the beret itself could be washed if it got grubby. As to not reserving couchettes, I imagine cost was a consideration for the Bettanys until Madge married Jem. And I don't know how many couchettes you could get to a compartment, but if the whole party couldn't fit into one compartment, whoever was in charge probably preferred to keep everyone together.

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the 'experienced traveller' in the world of the CS http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4575

Author:	Mrs Redboots [ 28 May 2008, 19:19 ]
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Doesn't Jo say in Summer Term that in the days of steam trains you had to cover your hair (i.e. by wearing a Tam) because otherwise it got so filthy. Long distance train travel these days lacks the romance of the 1920s, but is still fun! I recommend the ICE trains between Koeln and Berlin!

Author:	Sarah_K [ 28 May 2008, 19:28 ]
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Apparently some airports have special security queues for "Expert Travellers", meant presumeably for those who know to remove shoes and belts and get laptops out of bags etc. Though of course I suspect a lot of people who aren't would like to think of themselves as experts... I think you can often spot experienced travellers on long distance trains even when long distance only means a few hours, the ones with food that doesn't stink the carriage out, a book or two, enough layers for whatever the train heating does and their ticket somewhere easily reachable!

Author:	JayB [ 28 May 2008, 19:42 ]
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It's always easy to tell who is and who isn't accustomed to travelling on public transport in London - things like having your ticket ready as you approach the barrier, knowing how to use an escalator, moving quickly along the platform instead of standing in a huddle near the entrance, nipping in and grabbing the last seat in a crowded carriage (having looked round to check there isn't someone who needs it more, natch!)

Author:	JS [ 28 May 2008, 20:27 ]
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The last time I was in London I offered my seat to a heavily pregnant woman - she looked extremely surprised. Having said that, a young lad then got up and offered me his seat, which I accepted graciously!

Author:	Rosie [ 28 May 2008, 21:57 ]
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I have to admit that after a few years of quite a lot of travelling, even if a lot of it on the same routes (Brest airport obvs featuring highly; ditto Bangor station...), I consider myself fairly adept. Not always, obviously, as my complete lack of organisation ususally thwarts me at some point, but am experienced enough to be able to get myself out of the mess I've created!

Author:	Róisín [ 28 May 2008, 22:56 ]
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Anytime I travel anywhere I picture myself as Biddy in New Mistress - ok, I leave out the beret, but I do bring a bag of knitting, a book and what I fancy constitutes a replacement for her 'box of American candies' Oh, and when I take out the knitting and use it, I smugly remind myself of EBD's super efficent Swiss girls, who never went anywhere without their knitting bag. Must find that quote

Author:	Shander [ 29 May 2008, 00:26 ]
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I love to travel with my knitting, especially when I'm flying. But a lot of airlines over here don't allow them anymore, so I"m always afraid they're going to confiscate my needles. Apparently knitting needles can be used as a weapon?! I do like to think I'm fairly experienced though, wearing shoes that are easy to get on and off, getting my things easily accesible before going though security and generally having enough layers to deal with the odd heating/air conditioning of the planes. That said, I do have a great deal of sympathy for the Chalet Girls doing those long trips by train. I did the trip from Halifax to Montreal once, and 24 hours sitting up was quite enough for me. I can't imagine doing it for two days, as is mentioned in one of the books.

Author:	Alex [ 29 May 2008, 08:46 ]
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I think in Europe, an experienced traveller now would be one who knows they have to composte (not quite sure how to translate...punch?) their ticket before they get on a train, that they must similarly stamp their ticket when they get on a bus, and understand the complicated system of tickets in, for example, Italy where you buy supplements depending on how fast the train is going to travel.

Author:	Tor [ 29 May 2008, 09:42 ]
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and then, of course, there is a whole other level of madness. My SLOC travelled extensively during his childhood (SLOC's dad an archaeologist, Mum an aussie living in the UK so many trips to see Grandparents/go on digs etc). He knows the seating plan of basically every plane ever built, and what planes serve most major routes, and he has a pretty good knowledge of what are the best and worst seats on offer based on leg room/proximity to toilet/whether they are a full window or get that annoying half window thing/if it's an old plane likely to get really hot at the back etc (apparently there are whole discussion forums about whether seat 2A or 2B are best on a BA boeing 777.... but as that is presumably 1st class, they would both look pretty good to me!). But still, now that you can book your seat online, it is quite useful. I love him very much (2.5 weeks until the wedding!!!), and benefit massively from his travel expertise, but really..... some people are obsessed! I love long-distance travel by train, and swear by http://www.seat61.com - a truly truly great website!

Author:	Rosie [ 29 May 2008, 18:35 ]
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I often end up covered in ink/paint/cornflour/mud... it does all sound terribly romantic, doesn't it? But I suppose they'd be amazed at how we can navigate modern transport so easily... I often wish for a 'native porter' however...

Author:	joelle [ 30 May 2008, 15:14 ]
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i hope you have a lovely time!Looking forward to hearing how EBD`s methods work in practice.

Author:	Kathy_S [ 03 Jun 2008, 05:03 ]
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Peanut butter in a small plastic peanut butter jar is also very dangerous and subject to confiscation. Apparently it qualifies as a "gel."

Author:	Rosie [ 19 Jun 2008, 21:54 ]
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It would be nice if they were clean and quiet... To name and shame, Cross Country (between Birmingham New Street/Nuneaton and Peterborough being the bit I do) have trains which rattle at such a frequency as to make my arms tingle if I lean on the table, or the hamster cage to rattle very loudly and scare everybody (hammy included)!

Author:	Róisín [ 29 May 2008, 11:46 ]
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LOL so true about that other level of madness. Not planes, but trains and buses for me - for eight years I travelled on two particular routes, twice a week, that crossed the country from coast to coast. I had it pinned down to which bench to sit on, to get the first coffee in the morning, because I could predict which carriage the trolley would have made it to

Author:	Alison H [ 29 May 2008, 11:56 ]
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When I worked in town I knew exactly where to stand on the platform so that the tram doors would open right in front of me .

Author:	JackieP [ 29 May 2008, 11:58 ]
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Shander - re your knitting needles - might be worth checking whether the material makes a difference - they might let you use bamboo/wood but not metal/plastic... I think I'm quite good with travelling. Possibly due to my first year at Uni where I came home virtually every weekend.... JackieP

Author:	Tor [ 29 May 2008, 13:35 ]
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Quote: When I worked in town I knew exactly where to stand on the platform so that the tram doors would open right in front of me . Ditto me for tubes! And making sure you are in the right carriage to get off next to the platform exit, when I do that I am really proud of myself!

Author:	Sunglass [ 29 May 2008, 18:26 ]
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Congratulations on being about to be married,Tor. I travel a lot for work, so I suppose I count as an experienced traveller (or at least a flyer) in the modern sense, in that I pack appropriately, never carry things that aren't allowed in hand luggage, and am capable of getting my laptop out and repacked, and belt, shoes and coat off and on again etc very quickly. I'm also enough of an adoptive Londoner these days to know where the best coffee is at major rail stations, and to be a tube user who's good at short cuts, knowing when a route that looks to be faster isn't really, and pulling a big case through Kings Cross to the Eurostar without mowing down tourists. (JayB - I entirely agree on the checklist of the experienced tube user traits!) But it all seems rather less romantic than getting the Wien night express and commanding porters about. I particularly find the idea of being dirtied by soft coal train smoke more exciting than the prospect of London making the inside of one's nostrils black... Someone who knows more about earlyish to mid- 20thc European train travel - is the sheer amount of emphasis on getting dirty on trains a reflection of contemporary reality or just EBD who elsewhere is continually presenting characters getting covered with ink, blacking, flour, green dye?

Author:	evelyn38 [ 29 May 2008, 22:28 ]
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My Mum and Dad both worked in offices above London railway stations in the '50's and she has (often!) told me how her petticoat used to have a two inch grey band round the bottom of it where the coal dust/steam seeped under her skirt. Similarly Dad's collars got black from the coal dust.

Author:	Róisín [ 29 May 2008, 22:57 ]
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Tor wrote: I love him very much (2.5 weeks until the wedding!!!)... Oh wow! Best of luck with everything and congratulations!

Author:	Kathy_S [ 30 May 2008, 03:49 ]
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I know I've read other authors who mention the coal dust -- or politely allow visitors to remove "train dirt" first thing upon arrival. One passage I find fascinating, though it's the wrong country and set just before Christmas, 1907, is the part of Betsy in Spite of Herself in which good hats are carefully bagged for the train journey, and the porter helps ensure that people aren't too filthy when they get off the train: Quote: ...the porter came in and started brushing people. Betsy watched closely and when her turn came didn't make any mistakes. He took her new red hat out of the bag and brushed it and she put it on. She stood up while he brushed the red and green sailor suit and wiped off her shoes. When he had helped her into her coat and furpiece, she gave him fifty cents and he said, "Thank you, miss. I hope you have a good time in Milwaukee with your friend Tib."

Author:	Tor [ 30 May 2008, 09:46 ]
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Thanks for all the kind wishes Róisín and Sunglass! I am getting a tad excited... But, vaguely relevant to this thread, my honeymoon involves a lot of train travel in India, a leg of which will be (hopefully... they keep going on strike...) on the "toy train", a steam train that goes over the mountains to Darjeeling. The rest is on ordinary (if Indian trains can be considered ordinary) trains, and I am very excited. If anyone has seen Monsoon Railway, you will see immediately that the Indian Railway system seems much closer to the old-style European network, though much more crowded. But there are railway porters to grab your bags before you can negotiate a rate etc, so i am already living in a CS fantasy. I am not sure I'll be experienced at the beginning, but I am sure I will be by the time I come home! I shall refer to EBD whilst packing - needing to look trig for the cities, and yet practical for mountain trekking too. Fingers crossed no floods though (it is the monsoon... ) Also, soft coal or no soft coal, the first thing I want to do after any long journey is wash and change. It helps me shift from travel mode to staying-in-one-place mode (i.e. relax!). And every time I've go to the loo straight after getting off a flight, I always find a half dozen ladies in there washing their faces, brushing hair and teeth etc, so I guess lots of people feel the need for a freshen up.

Author:	Fiona Mc [ 31 May 2008, 02:13 ]
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Tor just a word of advice if you are travelling by train in India, Make sure you and SLOC have a mobile phone each you can use. My brother lives in India more or less full time and my sister visited him with Dad and her SLOC. The carriages are crowded and men and women travel in seperate carriages. My sister started off by traveliing with everyone else but found it too uncomfortable to continue as everyone is packed in like sardines. (There is no personal space and it's worse than London). She ended up travelling in the women's carriage and the phone means if you get seperated or someone gets stuck on the train and can't get out at the right stop you can at least call each other. By the way good luck and congratulations with your wedding!

Author:	Aishwarya [ 31 May 2008, 08:39 ]
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Fiona Mc wrote: My brother lives in India more or less full time and my sister visited him with Dad and her SLOC. The carriages are crowded and men and women travel in seperate carriages. My sister started off by traveliing with everyone else but found it too uncomfortable to continue as everyone is packed in like sardines. (There is no personal space and it's worse than London). She ended up travelling in the women's carriage Does your brother live in Bombay/Mumbai? Because as far as I know the Bombay Local trains are the only ones that have separate women's carriages. I've never heard of Indian Railways (which is what you'd use if you were travelling from one city to another, rather than just within Bombay) having a separate space for women. The Bombay trains are ridiculously crowded. Indian railways can be quite comfortable depending on what part of the country, what sort of train, and (obviously) what class carriage you're in. I hate train travel, myself. I feel far less secure about travelling alone by train than I do with planes.

Author:	Anjali [ 31 May 2008, 08:55 ]
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I think the local(suburban) trains in most major Indian cities have a 'ladies only' compartment, which can sometimes be more crowded than the general ones - all other trains: intercity, long-distance etc don't have separate carriages for women, and are quite comfortable as Aishwarya says, as long as you have a reserved ticket! There is always one 'unreserved' compartment where unCSlike last-minute travellers can jump in...this is where it gets ugly!

Author:	Tor [ 31 May 2008, 21:38 ]
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thanks for all the tips. As far as I am aware, we are mostly together in couchettes (AC1 class), and have reservations (hey it's our honeymoon...why rough it?!). fingers crossed it will just be massively fun, and only exciting in a good way! As the indian train network looks like the most amazing system, I have high hopes!

Author:	Anjali [ 01 Jun 2008, 03:28 ]
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Congratulations and hope you have an exciting time Tor !

Author:	Alison H [ 01 Jun 2008, 06:55 ]
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Congratulations Tor - hope the wedding and the honeymoon are both wonderful!

Author:	Kate [ 02 Jun 2008, 18:48 ]
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JackieP wrote: Shander - re your knitting needles - might be worth checking whether the material makes a difference - they might let you use bamboo/wood but not metal/plastic... The girl on front of me in the plane to Boston on Monday was knitting, so some types must be allowed. I was madly jealous. I fail to see how a knitting needle is more dangerous than a lot of things you are allowed bring on board. Including glass bottles of alcohol that people buy in duty free.

Author:	Anjali [ 03 Jun 2008, 02:09 ]
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Quote: I fail to see how a knitting needle is more dangerous than a lot of things you are allowed bring on board. Including glass bottles of alcohol that people buy in duty free. Such as chilli powder? It was confiscated from my hand luggage on my most recent flight from India...apparently I looked mad enough to cut open the vacuum-sealed pack and throw the contents into the eyes of fellow passengers... As to what the potent chilli was doing in my bag, my mother refuses to believe that such things can be bought in Oz! Edited because I can't type!

Author:	JS [ 03 Jun 2008, 10:15 ]
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Being a savvy traveller starts before setting out. I've just had to book flights to Avignon for a family occasion. Only direct flight was with Jet2, which looked reasonable (it's a low-cost airline which gets lots of awards). But when I actually booked I realised that the upfront fare quoted on the website didn't even include taxes, let alone baggage, fuel surcharge and so on. It really pushed up the cost and I felt it was unfair and, I thought, against trading rules these days. It was the only flight/transport that would square with work commitments and getting us there for the 'do' so I went ahead, but with a sour taste in the mouth which wouldn't have been there had they been upfront about the full fare from the start.

Author:	Mrs Redboots [ 18 Jun 2008, 15:07 ]
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None of them ever are upfront, though! Husband found that when booking our flights to Northern Ireland for a huge family party in a couple of weeks. We are only taking hand luggage - does anybody know whether crochet hooks are allowed? I know knitting needles aren't, but I could, perhaps, take some crochet to do instead. Anyway, I can't knit right now as I have sprained my left thumb and it's not quite mended enough yet. Re getting dirty on steam trains: I didn't often travel on steam trains in my childhood (except the Abingdon shuttle to Radley when I was very small), as Southern Region (as it then was) was already electrified. But I've noticed that if you travel on a preserved steam railway, you do come away pretty filthy!

Author:	MaryR [ 19 Jun 2008, 20:06 ]
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JS wrote: I've just had to book flights to Avignon for a family occasion. Only direct flight was with Jet2, which looked reasonable (it's a low-cost airline which gets lots of awards). But when I actually booked I realised that the upfront fare quoted on the website didn't even include taxes, let alone baggage, fuel surcharge and so on. We've flown to Nice with Jet2 a couple of times, since BA stopped flying out of Manchester, and yes, I agree about all the extras, but all the other low-cost airlines from here do the same. And their charges are all different. Some charge more than others for checked-in luggage, and Jet2 is half as expensive as bmibaby when it comes to reserving a seat on-line. Interestingly, with bmibaby, one tends to pay for checked-in luggage if one books on-line, but in fact if you just turn up at the desk on the day with said luggage, they don't charge a penny, apparently. We discovered this returning from Perpignan last week and talking to a fellow-traveller. Grr! As to rail travel, I did find the steam train travel of my youth far more romantic, if dirtier, than today's quiet, clean, late trains.