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Euphemisms
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7482

Author:  julieanne1811 [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Euphemisms

Alison H (thank you again Alison!) mentioned something along the lines of 'Jack went to the bathroom - was that a euphemism?'
I wanted to talk about this for some time, BUT, I do NOT want it to become a crude disussion ...! One thing I love about the CS books is their lack of nitty gritty detail about normal living habits.

But Alison's comment made me wonder - are there any other euphemisms? (Is it possible to discuss this without deteriorating into the detritus of life???). I have a very dear German friend, whom I have known for years. She has a UK passport and lives in Londn, but on a few points she very much retains her German personality. When I went with her to her home for a holiday, we went swimming in a lake. There was no-one else there and we were there with her mother. I was asked if I would like to bathe au naturel. I declined and so we all kept on our costumes.

My friend doesn't really enjoy GO lit (she prefers AC), but she has read my book, has been very encouraging about it and has offered some very constructive advice. BUT, the dear girl so often wants to know why things such as, ahem, bathrooms and their associated activities aren't mentioned in the books. She is far more blunt than I about these things.

I wouldn't have the books any other way, and I do hope some discussion about this is possible (in veiled terms!!!) without being too explicit. The belief that everything has to be 'real' ( meaning crude and harsh) is a belief to which I do not subscribe. I enjy escaping and anyway, reality isn't always grubby, is it?

So if we take 'going to the bathroom' as a euphemism for 'going to the loo' (yes, I know, that's another!), are there any others?

Author:  RroseSelavy [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eupemisms

Well, the big euphemism is "being busy" :lol:

Which is often followed by euphemistic references to what can only be construed as breastfeeding and nappies...

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eupemisms

And I've often wondered just what sort of socks Hilda expected to be darned in a marriage :shock: :lol:

Author:  Alison H [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

One of Felicity's friends asks to "be excused" (although I used to use that expression myself at school, because I thought it sounded grown up!), and Althea asks Len where she can go to "have a wash" (or words to that effect) at the station :D .

"Being busy" is definitely the best example, although I love Madge's wonderful explanation that she can't take over as temporary Head because "the family's having an extension". There are also various references to how people "aren't to be worried".

Some of the references to breastfeeding are very open, especially in Goes to It/War.

& I sometimes wonder if all the "bilious attacks" which affect Joan Bertram and some of the others were really "women's problems".

Personally, I love the lack of reference to "bathrooms" et al in the CS books ... I have just been regaled with considerably more detail than I wanted to know about the stomach upset which kept my colleague off work all week :shock: .

Author:  Catherine [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Alison H wrote:
One of Felicity's friends asks to "be excused" (although I used to use that expression myself at school, because I thought it sounded grown up!)


We were told that we had to use 'please may I be excused' because it was more polite than 'please may I go to the toilet'! I think we were Lower 3/Year 6 at that point.

In Coming of Age, Kathie Ferrars 'powders her nose' after cycling to the station to collect some prizes or something. I suppose she could have just been powdering her nose, which would probably have been shiny with sweat...

And I suppose, in another way, there's the references to age being responsible for the behaviour of the Middles.

Author:  RubyGates [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eupemisms

Oh Alison, poor you! You must be a :halo: to have put up with that. I don't think the lack of details regarding bodily functions is limited to GO fiction by any means. I've just read through my husband's collection of John Creasey books and no-one goes to the bathroom in them either unless it was to view a dead body. I have a wide variety of books and no-one really makes a point of going to the loo in any of them. It was something that I always wondered about with the Famous Five when they were hiding on Kirrin Island; how did they go to the loo?

I've just remembered a boss I had a few years ago who would go to the loo every day at exactly 10:30 with an announcement to the whole office that he was "just going to drop the kids off at the pool".

Author:  Mel [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eupemisms

I don't think it is mentioned even in the most modern of books. Even in the soaps, which are never sqeamish, they never seem to go to the loo. The worst sight was in The Royle Family Christmas Special - Jim on the loo! I think the worst case in the CS was in New when they spent the night on a bus.

Author:  trig [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eupemisms

Yes, I was often worried for the FF and the Swallows etc when they were on boats or hidden in castles and couldn't go for hours on end. My mum used to tell me that children didn't need the loo as often then as they didn't drink rubbish!

I'm sure either Barbara or Beth Chester goes to the toilet compartment (mentioned by name) on their journey to Switzerland but even then EBD seems to feel the necessity to stress that they were washing or powdering their noses, not, of course, going to the loo.

Of course, no one wants to read about characters going to the toilet (although I'm sure EBD could have written a detailed rota system with precise timings - better not go there :oops: ), but then EBD does go on a bit (!) about things like making beds or cleaning teeth which aren't particularly interesting. And she does write a lot about baths which I imagine was rather bold in the 1920s. Isn't there a scene in A room with a view, written about 15 years earlier, when the mention of a bath is seen as shocking?

Author:  RroseSelavy [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eupemisms

RubyGates wrote:
It was something that I always wondered about with the Famous Five when they were hiding on Kirrin Island; how did they go to the loo?


I wondered this aloud to my Dad while he was reading a Famous Five book to me as a child... he continued reading but added in a reference to toilets or farting every other paragraph :lol:

ChubbyMonkey wrote:
And I've often wondered just what sort of socks Hilda expected to be darned in a marriage


The mind boggles! :shock: We really should start using some of these... "ooh, she's darning another man's socks, she is..."

Author:  julieanne1811 [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eupemisms

And what about Camp???

Author:  Chelsea [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Catherine wrote:

We were told that we had to use 'please may I be excused' because it was more polite than 'please may I go to the toilet'! I think we were Lower 3/Year 6 at that point.


One of the things that takes a while to get used to when I visit Britain, is the use of the word "toilet" in public. Here, you'd say "restroom" (or something similar, depending on where you live). It would be considered rude to ask about the "toilet".

Then again, Brits find it rude when I comment on a man's "pants". :oops:

Author:  JB [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eupemisms

I don't generally notice the lack of reference to toilets. I'd only expect to read about it if it were necessary to the plot, although given that EBD does into such detail about all other aspects of CS routine, it does make the absence more noteable.

I assumed the Famous Five dug a hole behind a convenient gorse bush (not too close, though :wink: ) when they were camping. There must have been some kind of latrines for the CS Guide camp.

In Malcolm Saville's Where's My Girl, two of the characters are kidnapped but let out to use the bathroom.

My knitting group were shocked that i've never knitted a sock. What does that say about me? And SLOC's very cheap socks go in the bin when they get a hole. A disgrace to womanhood, that's me.

Given there's so little darning done nowadays, I wonder of what EBD would think a modern marriage comprised?

Author:  Selena [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eupemisms

RubyGates wrote:
I've just read through my husband's collection of John Creasey books and no-one goes to the bathroom in them either unless it was to view a dead body.

That could be a good euphemism maybe? "I'm just off to view a dead body..."

I'm reading a book about Marie-Antoinette at the moment and she and her sisters refered to their periods as visits from "Generale Krottendorf". I don't recall any euphemisms at the CS about them. It seems strange to me, as an adult, to write books about teenage girls with no apparent reference to this at all.

Slightly off topic, but I always wondered why no-one ever needed to "go" when they went on their long rambles. Especially if they stopped off for milk at a local's house / farm en route.

Author:  cal562301 [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

This discussion reminded me that there is a book by a fairly well-known Russian author, Lermontov, which opens with the main character sitting on the er... convenience and singing a little ditty about how well his bowels are working today!

The title escapes me at the moment, but it caused us a great deal of amusement even as university students - it was one of our set books.

Author:  Kathy_S [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I think I recall Ramona Geraldine Quimby* asking a similar question, about where Mike Mulligan** went to the bathroom -- much to the embarrassment of her older sister.

Didn't Dr. Seuss end up having characters go to the euphemism? It's always interesting how quickly the euphemism has to be replaced with another euphemism for a euphemism for a euphemism. (And Chelsea is right: "toilet" would be also be considered vulgar here. It's hard to overcome one's own conditioning about some words, and easy to trip over other people's red flags.)


*originally the bratty little sister but ultimately promoted to protagonist, in a series of books by Beverly Cleary
**Hero of a famous picture book. He and his steam shovel, Mary Ann, who are being put out of work by modernization, win a John Henry-esque battle in digging a cellar -- but leave no way out. They live happily ever after with Mary Ann providing a heating system.

Author:  KathrynW [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Kathy_S wrote:
(And Chelsea is right: "toilet" would be also be considered extremely vulgar here. It's hard to overcome one's own conditioning about some words, and easy to trip over other people's red flags.)


It is somewhat vulgar in the UK too...it's certainly one of the words my mother tells me off for using as it's not 'nice'. IIRC, there's an episode of QI where Stephen Fry says that his mother won't let him use the world 'toilet' either.

Author:  Selena [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

That's because "toilet" is a working class word, as opposed to the upper class "lavatory", rather than because of what is being described (IYSWIM), isn't it though?

Author:  KathrynW [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Selena wrote:
That's because "toilet" is a working class word, as opposed to the upper class "lavatory", rather than because of what is being described (IYSWIM), isn't it though?


Oh yes, I agree completely. I was more making a point about the word toilet rather than the anything behind it.

Author:  julieanne1811 [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Alison H wrote:
"Being busy" is definitely the best example, although I love Madge's wonderful explanation that she can't take over as temporary Head because "the family's having an extension". :shock: .


With all the home improvement programmes on the television these days, that particular euphemism could be misconstrued completely. 'Oh, you are having a conservatory built? How nice!'

Author:  Miss Di [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Still on toilets (and here in Australia you get pointed to the room with the bath in it not the room with the toilet in it if you ask for the bathroom and they are quite often seperate), when Joey goes missing saving Rufus from a watery grave doesn't Gisela suggest she might be in "the littlest room"?

Author:  Kathy_S [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Quote:
That's because "toilet" is a working class word, as opposed to the upper class "lavatory", rather than because of what is being described (IYSWIM), isn't it though?

Wait, does that mean the two would be synonyms for you? For me lavatory is the room, synonym with "bathroom" or "ladies'/men's room" or "powder room". Toilet is what my grandmother would call the "fixture," or perhaps the "commode."

edited because I can't seem to make quotes work today

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

As far as I know, both toilet and lavatory refer to the actual item, and I would use them interchangeably. I tend to use 'toilet' more, or might say I need to use the bathroom. I don't consciously use lavatory.

As for euphemisms, I know some bizarre ones! Mainly rude, so I won't list them here, but it's amazing how many one can invent when one tries :lol:

Personally, I never, ever realised the lack of toilets in the CS until mum one day asked what they used to do there!

Author:  KathrynW [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Kathy_S wrote:
Quote:
That's because "toilet" is a working class word, as opposed to the upper class "lavatory", rather than because of what is being described (IYSWIM), isn't it though?

Wait, does that mean the two would be synonyms for you? For me lavatory is the room, synonym with "bathroom" or "ladies'/men's room" or "powder room". Toilet is what my grandmother would call the "fixture," or perhaps the "commode."

edited because I can't seem to make quotes work today


D'ya know, I'm really not sure! I think lavatory is more the room but I would also use it to describe the fitting in the way that I would use loo to describe both the room and the actual loo.

Author:  Selena [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I would say toilet, loo or lavatory is both the object itself and the room it is in, if it's in its own room.

Author:  Saffronya [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Just completely off the cuff, and probably completely wrong, but wouldn't toilet have been a euphemism in itself originally, as in seeing to one's toilet(te?) meaning to freshen up?

Author:  Kathy_S [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Saffronya wrote:
Just completely off the cuff, and probably completely wrong, but wouldn't toilet have been a euphemism in itself originally, as in seeing to one's toilet(te?) meaning to freshen up?

Yes, that's my understanding. Plus the French derivation made it more upscale. But euphemisms will degenerate.

A lavatory is literally a place where one washes -- from lavare, "to wash," as in "washroom," another acceptable euphemism for the room in which stands the fixture. I confess I figured "Splasheries" was EBD's synonym!

Author:  Alison H [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I don't like the word "toilet", which I always think sounds a bit rude: I think "rest room" is much nicer. Is it "wash room" in Canada? I usually ask for "the ladies'" if I have to ask where they are :lol: .

Apparently the upper-classes use "loo", and some of Prince William's friends have been rather shocked by Kate Middleton's mum using the word "toilet" :lol: .

Quote:
I'm reading a book about Marie-Antoinette at the moment and she and her sisters refered to their periods as visits from "Generale Krottendorf". I don't recall any euphemisms at the CS about them.


Queen Anne and Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough used to refer to visits from "Lady Charlotte": I don't know why they picked that particular name! I don't think it's a subject that would've been mentioned in books in EBD's day, though, especially as the younger end of the target age range might not've known what she was talking about.

Quote:
Just completely off the cuff, and probably completely wrong, but wouldn't toilet have been a euphemism in itself originally, as in seeing to one's toilet(te?) meaning to freshen up?


I remember reading Jane Eyre for the first time when I was about 8 and being very confused when Mr Rochester asked Jane to get something from his toilet table :lol: .

Author:  cestina [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

We talked about "going to the bog" at boarding school. Never struck me before how inelegant that is!

But in class we asked to be excused.

And "the flowers blooming" or "getting the curse". Both fairly standard euphemisms I think?

Author:  JB [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

[quote="Alison H"]
Queen Anne and Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough used to refer to visits from "Lady Charlotte": I don't know why they picked that particular name! I don't think it's a subject that would've been mentioned in books in EBD's day, though, especially as the younger end of the target age range might not've known what she was talking about. /quote]

In Barbara Vine's Asta's Book, the euphemisim for a period is important to the plot. It involves a diary from the early 20th century which is translated from Danish and, once the modern characters understand the euphemism, they realise that someone referred to in the diary couldn't have been pregnant.

Periods wouldn't have been mentioned in a school story in EBD's time. I think it would have been seen as extremely innappropriate. Even Noel Streatfeild's Years of Grace which is non-fiction book for young girls with advice about hygiene, etc is pretty vague about them. The only oblique fictional reference I can think off is in Antonia Forest's Cricket Term from the late 1960s/early 70s when Ginty asks Monica if she'll be "cursed" for a swimming match.

Author:  judithR [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

When I was working on staphylococci & toxic shock syndrome was in the news, as light relief we used to collect euphemisms.

"United are playing at home" or "I've the painters in" anyone? Also "red sails in the sunset", "the Fench/British have landed"

As for the "bathroom", I alwys like Ngaio Marsh's "usual offices" as a euphemism for what a friend of mine calls "the geography". And Anne McCaffrey's "necessary".

There are also "visiting my aunt" or "picking flowers" while "seeing a man about a dog" or "inspecting the rear wheel".

Author:  cestina [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

judithR wrote:

As for the "bathroom", I alwys like Ngaio Marsh's "usual offices" as a euphemism for what a friend of mine calls "the geography". And Anne McCaffrey's "necessary".


Yes I like that. I also like what the Czechs say: zařízení = the facilities. I have imported its use into English :D

Author:  JennieP [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I'm also quite fond of 'surfing the crimson wave' from the film Clieless which was, what, mid- nineties?

Author:  janetbrown23 [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

The SLOC calls it the necessarium.

Author:  Sarah_G-G [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I remember being deeply confused when I was about 7 or 8 by somebody asking me if they could "spend a penny." I think I was in the bathroom washing something and the girl's mother told her to just go and ask me, only I hadn't the faintest idea what the phrase meant and said something like: "Um, yes? If you want. I don't know where you'll spend it though, I'm not sure where the nearest shop is." :lol: :oops:

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I first heard that at 13, Sarah, and didn't have a clue! I think that I ended up looking to mum in great confusion to save me.

Usual ones for me would be "that time" and probably "use the ladies'". I'm still stuck on 'Tales of Angria', and there's a footnote explaining that it used to be that they couldn't be called trousers; they were "unmentionables" or "inexpressables" or "etceteras".

I do wonder at whether some of the things that we use euphemisms for now will no longer have any social uncomfortableness attached to them in a couple of decades, so that they can be talked about quite openly. For example, I've found that it's still more common to talk about "sleeping with" someone (or "making out" as my friend so elegantly put it once :lol:) but I know a lot of people now who aren't at all squeamish about saying that they "had sex" with whoever. Is that technically a euphemism as well, to mean reproduction? And what would that have been called in EBD's time? (Sorry, I've fascinated myself now!)

Author:  judithR [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

JB wrote:
In Barbara Vine's Asta's Book, the euphemisim for a period is important to the plot. It involves a diary from the early 20th century which is translated from Danish and, once the modern characters understand the euphemism, they realise that someone referred to in the diary couldn't have been pregnant.


Wasn't it "having visitors"? Which rather spoilt the story as it was very obvious, early on, to those of us brought up in a more euphemistic age.

I'd forgotten to add "nettie" (North-East England) and "pennyhouse" (Yorkshire woman), also "going down to the bottom of the garden" - presumably to see the fairies!

Author:  Alison H [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

There's a shop near me called "The Village Convenience". I assume that it's meant as in convenience store (although I don't know why it's called "village" as we live in a suburb :roll: ), but it always makes me laugh because "village convenience" sounds like a public toilet :lol: .

"Necessary" is used in a lot of historical novels!

Ariel, I'm quite sure that CS girls never referred to such matters! At least, I assume that the "larks" which Joan Baker got up to with Vic Coles meant things like throwing chips over walls, and not ... er, anything else. If, for example, Joey wanted to mention the subject to Madge after they were both married, though, I assume she'd've delicately referred to "our married life". Or maybe "Jack's attentions", although that sounds a bit Victorian. No-one in CS-land would, of course, got up to anything like that with anyone to whom they weren't married!

If they just meant kissing, maybe "snogging" or "necking", or perhaps "spooning" in the very early days. Seeing as Madge was always expressing her dislike of jazz music, I assume no-one would've referred to "making whoopee" (the song Michelle Pfeiffer sang in The Fabulous Baker Boys, originally a 1920s jazz song) :lol:, although I'd love to've seen Madge's face if someone'd come out with an expression like that.

I'm always quite surprised that Simone refers straight out to her "undies" when she sorting out her clothes for her wedding, although she was only talking to her best friends so maybe that made it OK :lol: .

Author:  Joey [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

cestina wrote:
judithR wrote:

As for the "bathroom", I alwys like Ngaio Marsh's "usual offices" as a euphemism for what a friend of mine calls "the geography". And Anne McCaffrey's "necessary".


Yes I like that. I also like what the Czechs say: zařízení = the facilities. I have imported its use into English :D


I ask for the facilities if I'm somewhere I haven't been before, but it isn't translated from anything!

In Welsh it's called the tŷ bach (meaning little house), and even people who don't speak much Welsh tend to be able to point you in the right direction.

I've always thought of a lavatory as one of those big rooms with rows of stalls at either side and rows of washbasins down the middle that you get at school. The CS splasheries seem to be a combination of this and a cloakroom, since they have pegs and lockers as well as washbasins.

There's a definite reference to toilets in one of the later Swiss books, though I can't remember which one. The head girl asks people who want to "wash their hands" to wait behind. I remmeber noticing it because it's so unusual to have a direct reference. I was certainly taught as a chld to say that I wanted to wash my hands.

A bathroom is a room with a bath in it. It may also contain a loo, but if someone asked me for the bathroom I would assume they wanted a bath, and I'd make sure they knew where to find towels, bubble bath etc.

Kathy_S wrote:
Toilet is what my grandmother would call the "fixture," or perhaps the "commode."


This is interesting. To me, a "commode" refers specifically to a toilet which is not plumbed in and needs to be emptied manually, e.g. as used by people who have trouble with mobility.

Author:  judithR [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Alison H wrote:
"Necessary" is used in a lot of historical novels!


As in the Wordsmiths of Gorsemere? Where it was the roost for the cockerelle (sic) and I believe Hannah Moore had an extensive correspondence with someone about leakage from such a facility.

Joey wrote:
In Welsh it's called the tŷ bach (meaning little house), and even people who don't speak much Welsh tend to be able to point you in the right direction.


As in the "wee hoose/hoosie" found in Scotland?

Author:  Mona [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Quote:
For example, I've found that it's still more common to talk about "sleeping with" someone (or "making out" as my friend so elegantly put it once :lol:)


Interesting. I've always taken "making out" as a modern version of what would once have been called "heavy petting" ie: rather more than kissing but not quite going "all the way"

Author:  Joey [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Mona wrote:
Quote:
For example, I've found that it's still more common to talk about "sleeping with" someone (or "making out" as my friend so elegantly put it once :lol:)


Interesting. I've always taken "making out" as a modern version of what would once have been called "heavy petting" ie: rather more than kissing but not quite going "all the way"


Yes, me too. "Making out" is the same as "snogging", i.e. a bit more than just kissing. "Sleeping with" someone is going all the way.

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

That's also how I would use it, but my friend and I aren't, er, in the habit of discussing such things with anyone, so I rather guessed that she meant more than was implied from the context. Sorry for the confusion! :oops:

Author:  Tor [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

To me both toilet and lavatory are used to describe both the room and the actual object you would sit on. Currently planning bathroom renovations, and most suppliers call the ceramic bodily waste receptacle ( :D ) a toilet. Given the euphemistic nature of all such conversations, context is all, thus if someone asked me where the bathroom is in, say, the middle of dinner, I would not assume they wanted a bath :D

My least favourite phrase is an americanism; I want to screech when I hear adult women talk about 'going to the potty'. It is the only phrase that gets to me, mostly because (to me) it sounds like using baby-talk and I find that rather degrading. But I don't know if 'potty' is used in american as we use it her - i.e. to specifically designate a plastic chamber pot used for toddlers. I basically use whichever expression I feel like, and vary it a lot (there are many options!). I will even say 'I am desperate for a wee', though I probably wouldn't if addressing royalty. :lol: :lol:

Author:  julieanne1811 [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

ChubbyMonkey wrote:
I've found that it's still more common to talk about "sleeping with" someone (or "making out" as my friend so elegantly put it once :lol:)


The Pastor of the Church in which I grew up used to say, 'I don't worry about people sleeping together - it's what they do when they're awake that's more important'.

Author:  Kathy_S [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Quote:
But I don't know if 'potty' is used in american as we use it her - i.e. to specifically designate a plastic chamber pot used for toddlers.


Potty-chair or potty is used for the toddler variety, but I wouldn't say exclusively, and certainly variations on having to "go potty", although used most often by mothers and young children, are common parlance. Not as polite as "May I be excused?", but not rude, probably because it is associated with young children (except in phrases such as "potty-mouth.") It's sometimes a bit easier than trying to interpret the inflection to tell whether "I have to go" means person is about to leave the premises or is asking about restroom facilities.

Quote:
Currently planning bathroom renovations, and most suppliers call the ceramic bodily waste receptacle ( :D ) a toilet.
Yes, I would say "toilet" to the plumber, or when shopping for a replacement toilet seat, and manufacturers of toilet cleaners have no label inhibitions. It's only when it comes to using them that the euphemisms begin these days.

Author:  Alison H [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Imagine how confusing it must have been trying to make sense of euphemisms like these in three different languages :shock: :lol: . There must've been some wonderful misunderstandings and a lot of embarrassment ...

Author:  judithR [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

julieanne1811 wrote:
The Pastor of the Church in which I grew up used to say, 'I don't worry about people sleeping together - it's what they do when they're awake that's more important'.


When I was a student, a long time ago, we had to sign in before (Ithink) 9.30pm. Our Warden used to say that if we were going to "get up to anything" we could do it as well before 9.30 as after!

The translated euphemism that I found grated was in the film of HP & the Philosopher's Stone. The book said that Moaning Myrtle haunted a toilet in a girl's cloakroom, a location immediately recognisable bythe Uk population but the film located her in a girl's bathroom. Not nearly as funny.

Is this what is meant by divided (spelling?) by a common language?

Author:  Kathy_S [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

You have toilets in a cloakroom? :shock: For me that's just a room or alcove with a row of pegs or hangers for coats, with maybe a shelf for lunchboxes etc. Maybe that explains how there are individually marked pegs in Splasheries?

ETA My set of books has also been Americanized, so I wouldn't notice a change there. I've only read the first volume in the British version, and was incensed to find that the American publisher thought American kids wouldn't have any background on the philosopher's stone, despite its figuring prominently in at least one previous Newbery winner.

Author:  Tor [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

It's another euphemism - there were/are often toilets and wash basins associated with cloakrooms (i.e. adjoining rooms) in hotels, restaurants, posher houses It allows people to take care of the necessary when they arrive, alongside fixing one's hair/makeup and washing one's hands etc without needing to ask any embarrassingly personal questions. Very sensible.

Sometimes this can be very confusing though - for instance in Fortnum and Mason's (v. posh food shop near The Ritz in London), the toilets are only signposted as 'gentleman's cloakroom' and 'Ladie's powder room', I think... if you aren't aware of the euphemism, you might be ard pressed to find a convenience in time! :lol: :lol:

Author:  Alison H [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I really am wondering (being very bored at work!) what the people who weren't native English speakers would have made of all this!

Frieda: Why then, my Jo, does Simone cry so much today?
Jo: No idea. Maybe she's expecting a visit from auntie's friend.

Frieda goes off and tells everyone that a friend of Mlle Lepattre's whom Simone dislikes is coming to look round the school.

Jack: Gottfried, old chap, keep an eye on the womenfolk and look out for any passing spies, will you? I just need to go and see a man about a dog.
Jo (a few minutes later): Gottfried, where's Jack gone?
Gottfried: He has gone to talk to someone about a dog.

Jo gets wildly excited, thinking that Jack has arranged for someone to send Rufus out of Austria with them.


Just out of interest (I have no life and am very bored today!), does anyone know any equivalent phrases in French or German?

Author:  Joey [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Tor wrote:
It's another euphemism - there were/are often toilets and wash basins associated with cloakrooms (i.e. adjoining rooms) in hotels, restaurants, posher houses It allows people to take care of the necessary when they arrive, alongside fixing one's hair/makeup and washing one's hands etc without needing to ask any embarrassingly personal questions. Very sensible.


It's a slightly old-fashioned euphemism, but one that actually makes sense in practical terms. In fact, we have a cloakroom in our modern semi-detatched house: the downstairs loo and washbasin are separated by a sliding door from the boiler, which has pegs for coats next to it.

Author:  judithR [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Given that, like Alison H, I'm fed up with work today, can anyone tell me if le petit coin was indeed where auntie went when she left the room & felt better?

And calling all Australians - did Kerry Greenwood invent the phrase "ladies travelling necessities" or was it common coin? It was the only one of her expressions I wasn't familiar with.

Author:  JB [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

judithR wrote:
JB wrote:
In Barbara Vine's Asta's Book, the euphemisim for a period is important to the plot. It involves a diary from the early 20th century which is translated from Danish and, once the modern characters understand the euphemism, they realise that someone referred to in the diary couldn't have been pregnant.


Wasn't it "having visitors"? Which rather spoilt the story as it was very obvious, early on, to those of us brought up in a more euphemistic age.


I think it was "a visitor in the house". It was a euphemism i'd come across before too so it spoiled that for me too, Judith. There's also a reference later on in the book to "red flower" and other phrases when the characters are talking about translation from Danish.

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

In 'Spies' two young boys see a diary marked with "a mysterious letter X" on certain days. That isn't actually all that crucial to the plot, nor is it very difficult to guess, even on a first read, but their reaction was amusing!

Sorry :oops: the discussion just reminded me of that, and how funny it is when you're talking about something around young children and they just don't get the euphemism. Actually, I say that, I've never had cause to be euphemistic in front of children before, so perhaps it was just my parent's amusement whenever I was being dim that tells me it's funny!

Author:  cestina [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

About the period girls (especially in boarding school) in Germany would say "ich hab' meine Tante" or "ich krieg meine Tante" (I have my aunt or I am getting my aunt). For going to the loo I don't know what men (or boys) say. In general "Ich guck' mal nach dem Wetter"(I'm going to have a look at the weather) could be one way. "Ich muss mal aufs Häusel"(I have to go to the little house) another. "Ich muss mal" (I have to) is very common

But I'm not sure how current most of these are!

Author:  sealpuppy [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

A long time ago when I stayed with a penfriend in Germany, the corresponding term for 'loo' seemed to be 'floh'. (Think that's the spelling). 'Coming on' seems to have been the euphemism I most used for periods but I recently heard of someone expecting a visit from her 'Auntie Ruby' :shock:
I can't say toilet because I know my granny would be frowning at me and shaking her head, but that's just conditioning!

As for school cloakrooms: ours had rows of pegs and hooks; benches, shelves under the bench for shoes and bags; and a row of WC cubicles at the far end. I've always assumed the Splasheries were similar and rather liked the name.

Other euphemisms: poor Hilda and her 'sick headaches', have always assumed she suffered from migraines; plus Sharly? who clearly had hayfever regularly but was always whisked off into quarantine by Matey I wonder if, faced with a tricky lesson, Sharly might have hastily stuck her nose into a flower, to kick off the sneezes?

Author:  cestina [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

sealpuppy wrote:
A long time ago when I stayed with a penfriend in Germany, the corresponding term for 'loo' seemed to be 'floh'. (Think that's the spelling).

Are you sure it wasn't "klo"? Short for klosette I guess ie water closet. It's the standard term for loo....Ich gehe aufs klo (I'm going to the loo)

Author:  KathrynW [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I have to say, I find most euphemisms for periods really quite disturbing and they gross me out far more than the word period does! I would far rather just say 'I've got my period' than any of the alternatives unless it's for comedic effect in which case I'll go for the most ridiculous thing I can think of!

Author:  Billie [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

If I need to be excused, I usually say I'm going to the "ladies'" or loo. For That Time Of The Month, I might warn people that I am going into werewolf mode (ie I turn into a b*tch once a month) and add "stuff" to my shopping list, to be purchased at Boots.

Author:  JennieP [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I say "It's PMT week" and watch the room empty...

Author:  Nightwing [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

KathrynW wrote:
I have to say, I find most euphemisms for periods really quite disturbing and they gross me out far more than the word period does!


I agree, and I tend not to euphemise at all unless I'm around little kids - after all, most other women have had or do have periods, and well, if men can't deal with the fact then it's about time they did

Author:  Mrs Redboots [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

In French you are "indisposée" or "réglée" each month; but most of my French friends just talk about going to "faire pipi" if they say anything at all!

I must say, I'm finding the euphemism "busy" very useful just now. My daughter is going to be very busy soon - my African and Caribbean friends "get" that immediately, my White friends only sometimes do.

Author:  tiffinata [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

A former workmate used to call it 'grumpy season'
My husband refers to it as 'the Russians' or 'going surfing'
Technically I guess we should say 'I'm menstruating'!

Have heard references to the 'WC', 'dunny', 'Lav', 'loo', 'outback', 'going to see a man about a dog', 'taking a dump', 'calling the (sewage)farm on the porcelain telephone'. Husband says 'Pointing Percy at the Porcelain'
I guess we use the word 'crap' after the inventor of the flushing toilet, Mr Crapper.

Another one who would look twice if someone wanted to use the 'bathroom'- it's a cultural thing!

ETA I mentioned to someone when I was going to be snowed under with work that I was going to be 'busy' and they asked me if I was pregnant!

Author:  Miss Di [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

judithR wrote:
And calling all Australians - did Kerry Greenwood invent the phrase "ladies travelling necessities" or was it common coin? It was the only one of her expressions I wasn't familiar with.



Can't say I've ever heard it but KG is from Melbourne and I'm from Sydney. We know that they are Different down south :lol:

Another euphanism for period I remember from my teenage years "A visit from George" Why on earth GEORGE?


How about Down the back. Which we actually use at our holiday place because the toilet is. Not so good in the middle of the night when the yard is full of great big kangaroos.

Author:  Fiona Mc [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Miss Di wrote:
judithR wrote:
And calling all Australians - did Kerry Greenwood invent the phrase "ladies travelling necessities" or was it common coin? It was the only one of her expressions I wasn't familiar with.



Can't say I've ever heard it but KG is from Melbourne and I'm from Sydney. We know that they are Different down south :lol:


I am from down south and were not that different! :lol: :P and I've never heard of that expression. I know the toilet is sometimes called the dunny here which tends more to refer to the outhouses that is a hole in the ground rather than a proper toilet.

I do remember finding some phrases weird when I went to Nth Ireland- not sure if they are euphemisms but will never forget the shock I got when my aunt asked me if I was foundered. All she was asking was if I was cold.

Author:  Artemis [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

When I asked my grandfather if I could help him cure the bacon or ham (he was a farmer, and killed and cured his own meat) he would always ask me 'Are you cursed, girl?' if I said I was, I wasn't allowed to help. I would never have DARED to lie to him!

Menstruating women were not meant (in his view) to touch meat that was for curing or salting, as they would 'turn' it, and it would not keep as long as it should but go 'reasty'.

I was always allowed to help with cheese or butter though - the same thing did not apply to dairy products!

Author:  judithR [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

My sister, who read modern languages & worked in France, introduced me to the term "squattez vous" which I found descriptive when I needed to step aside in the former Yugoslavia.

Author:  Tor [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Quote:
My sister, who read modern languages & worked in France, introduced me to the term "squattez vous" which I found descriptive when I needed to step aside in the former Yugoslavia.


oh help, I am now getting lost in euphemisms for euphemisms... would you say this for going to the toilet or when referring to your period? :lol: :lol:

I only ask because I am sure someone (Mary-lou?) uses this prase in the CS? :shock:

Quote:
I have to say, I find most euphemisms for periods really quite disturbing and they gross me out far more than the word period does!


I agree with his too, KathrynW. And actually feel the same about euphemisms fullstop. To me, although I am sure it has it origin in a euphemism somewhere, saying I am going to the toilet or to the bathroom isn't a euphemism: I actually want to to go to the room I call by that name (and I am so used to bathrooms having toilets in them that I use them interchangeably). What I do in that room is no-ones business!

Author:  judithR [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Tor wrote:
oh help, I am now getting lost in euphemisms for euphemisms... would you say this for going to the toilet or when referring to your period?


When visiting my aunt as opposed to my aunt visiting me! I'm sure EDB didn't know what she was writig when M-L uses th phrase.

Author:  JellySheep [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

If so, she's not the only one. I remember being told to 'squattez-vous' when small and it just meant to sit down on the floor...

Author:  Loryat [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

judithR wrote:
The translated euphemism that I found grated was in the film of HP & the Philosopher's Stone. The book said that Moaning Myrtle haunted a toilet in a girl's cloakroom, a location immediately recognisable bythe Uk population but the film located her in a girl's bathroom. Not nearly as funny.

Is this what is meant by divided (spelling?) by a common language?


I was always under the impression (having read UK books only) that Myrtle haunted a bathroom. I don't remember the word cloakroom being used at all! But I can't really remember.

For me cloakroom would be the place in primary school where you hang us your coat. The toilets were a totally different building!

Author:  julieanne1811 [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

And of course, cloakrooms are really coatrooms now ... Does that make cloakroom a euphemism? Or is it just a change of use? How is 'euphemism' defined? Is it a word that hides some kind of message only understood by some people?
Interesting ... then when it's used you would have to know, without having talked about it beforehand, that the group of people who would hear the term would consist of 2 groups; one who would understand the code and the other who wouldn't and so would remain in the dark. That raises the questions: how do you know who understands and who doesn't without having extablished this first? What is it that makes a euphemism intelligable to one group and not another? We all use them and we use them in order to hide what we are saying from one group while communicating with the other group at the same time. But how do we know that the 'understanding group' will understand?
Mmmm. An anthropological study needed, I think! Or else I just need to have the other half of the split I've just baked.

Yes. That seems like a better option.

Author:  Joey [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Loryat wrote:
judithR wrote:
The translated euphemism that I found grated was in the film of HP & the Philosopher's Stone. The book said that Moaning Myrtle haunted a toilet in a girl's cloakroom, a location immediately recognisable bythe Uk population but the film located her in a girl's bathroom. Not nearly as funny.


For me cloakroom would be the place in primary school where you hang us your coat. The toilets were a totally different building!


I always assume a cloakroom has toilet cubicles as well as pegs. That was the case at my primary school and both secondary schools. The secondary schools had lavatories too, which had the loos and washbasins but no pegs.

I asked SLOC (it's all right, he already knew I was crazy) and he has the same understanding of "cloakroom" and "lavatory" as I do. I grew up in rural West Wales and he lived in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, so it's not local.

I think euphemisms can come close to jargon if you're not careful. Jargon definitele has its place: when you are with a group of people who all understand the same jargon it can be a useful shorthand. But too many people use jargon thoughtlessly, without considering the not everyone will understand, and then it becomes exclusive.

Author:  Tor [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

to me a euphemism is a word or phrase that literally means something else, but is used *specifically so one doesn't have to say something rude/unpleasant.* So it isn't 'jargon' per se, although it can be equally befuddling to uninitiated! Witness above ... I am still not quite sure what you meant judithR!!!

So, asking where the cloakroom is when you are in the middle of a party, or dinner, or whatever, and quite clearly don't need to deposit/collect your cloak :D , becomes a euphemism because you are using it to indirectly ask where the toilet is, but think it is impolite to say the word toilet. Asking where the cloakroom is when you arrive and want to hang up your cloak is not a euphemism, although you might be pleased to avail yourself of the conveniently located facilties in the same room/area. By pointing you here first, your host can cleverly side-step any mention of the unmentionable :roll:, euphemistically or otherwise.

Asking where the toilet is, nowadays, not a euphemism, but it probably started as one (I like to see to my toilette, or some such... I am just guessing). But if you ask for the toilet, you generally want a room with a toilet in it.

Quote:
But how do we know that the 'understanding group' will understand?


You don't. But if you are pretty confident of the mores of the group you are with you should be able to manage. If not, beware!!!!!

Author:  julieanne1811 [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Tor wrote:
Quote:
But how do we know that the 'understanding group' will understand?

You don't. But if you are pretty confident of the mores of the group you are with you should be able to manage. If not, beware!!!!!


I'm not entirely convinced about that ... my guess is that there is an understanding that groups share (or not), and somehow, in the collective subconscious, all know what the others know, or don't, without actually having to ask. That woul dhave to be tested, but it happens often enough for all of us to make use of it without mishap.
I think that if we didn't know it would be too risky to take the chance and if that was the case we would never risk the use of euphemisms.

As they are so prevalent there must be some collective understanding for us to have the security of using them.

Author:  Tor [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

yes, hence my use of 'mores'. You have to have a shared social framework. But you can never 'know' (i.e. be 100% sure) that someone will understand a euphemism. It a risk you take, and one that gets riskier the further away from you own cultural frame of reference you get.

Author:  cestina [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I just said "I must spend a penny first" and immediately got embroiled in an explanation to my 6 year old granddaughter....no shared mores there yet! :)

Author:  Tor [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

well it costs upwards of 50p nowdays!!!

Author:  Emily [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I came across a lovely euphemism for throwing up, in 'Mariana', when the heroine 'plumbs the depths of degradation' (I think that was it). As it's something that is singularly inelegant to talk about, I thought it was beautifully expressive.

Author:  Tor [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

particularly suited to describing hangover-related throwing up! I did enjoy Mariana, but I didn't remember that phrase.

Author:  Rob [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I was just flipping through a clothing catalogue when I came across the following description for Surf n Spray Swim Shorts:
Quote:
Live in these all day long - comes with a mesh gusset so Steve and the twins will be happy too! Also comes with a back pocket. Great swim shorts. 100% Polyester

I don't think Joey would have been amused :lol: although it does make the mind boggle a little when you think that Jack had Steve, Charles, Mike and two lots of twins, not to mention Cecil and the triplets! :shock: :twisted:

"It's a bit tight in here with Steve and the twins and you as well, Joey" said Jack, panting, his face flushed "this looks a nice spot, why don't we get them out for some air?" :rofl:

Obviously I'm talking about the Maynards stopping for a picnic whilst on a journey in a very small car ... :lol:

Author:  tiffinata [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

ROFL!!!!
That opens a whole new line of euphemisms!

'Meat and 2 veg', 'the sausage', 'family jewels', 'gentleman's region' (husband has adopted this one afer watching Top Gear), 'willie and the poor boys'....

And another one for the Chamber Pot- guzunda. because it goes under the bed!
How about 'thunder box'- usually refering to an outside toilet.

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I think that my role as rude person on the board may have just been stolen away in a fantastic fashion :lol: Phew!

I was going to add to that list, but I can't think of anything else to add! I tend to just say 'genitalia', the rest just sound silly to me. Hmm.

Author:  Fiona Mc [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

tiffinata wrote:
ROFL!!!!
That opens a whole new line of euphemisms!

'Meat and 2 veg', 'the sausage', 'family jewels', 'gentleman's region' (husband has adopted this one afer watching Top Gear), 'willie and the poor boys'....


When I furst started nursing I worked with two different nurses, one who referred to the male anatomy as the anatomy and the other called it Percy. I remember on one episode of Friends, the referred to it as the mouse as in put the mouse back in the house if it was showing through shorts.

I wish in some ways there was a common euphemism for bowel actions. As a nurse I have to ask about that and that's exactly what I call it, bowel actions or have you moved your bowels. The problem is I'm now getting blank looks from the younger generation as to what I'm talking about and then have to give its proper name of pooh which I find a little embarrassing or rude. I think its funny that some euphemisms are okay depending on the generation you're talking to.

Author:  lizco [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Recently was told that someone's girlfriend was "PG Tips" - when I looked blank (though all sorts of images were running through my mind) - I was told she was pregnant - has anyone else heard this?

Author:  judithR [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

To clear up one query. My sister came back from using the facilies to "faire pipi", though she usually uses a subjunctive construction (she is a linguist after all) and said, "By the way, it's a squattez vous."

I can only assume that she picked this up on one of her holiday jobs. She also swears in French which is a hangover from her rowing days as I gather one was not allowed to swear on the river.

I too liked the phrase in Mariana.

Pertaining to the family jewels - my favourite is the "gooseberry bush" for testicles which means that, of course, babies do come from under the gooseberry bush.

Author:  Tor [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Quote:
Live in these all day long - comes with a mesh gusset so Steve and the twins will be happy too! Also comes with a back pocket. Great swim shorts. 100% Polyester


oh my! That. Is. Hilarious. Coffee over screen hilarious. Thank you Rob :D , I will never be able to read the later CS books with a straight face again.

Quote:
Recently was told that someone's girlfriend was "PG Tips" - when I looked blank (though all sorts of images were running through my mind) - I was told she was pregnant - has anyone else heard this?


I have no idea where this comes from... I hope your friend was able to provide a reason for it, as I'd love to know how it connects with pregnancy (beyond the fact it has P and G in it...?).

Quote:
To clear up one query. My sister came back from using the facilies to "faire pipi", though she usually uses a subjunctive construction (she is a linguist after all) and said, "By the way, it's a squattez vous."


Thank you JudithR! I am sure I was being incredibly dense, but I just could not be sure. In fact I had thought it was related to periods, and couldn't work out how! But of course, with the preponderance of standing up toilets in France, it makes sense as a not-quite-euphemism for a toilet. At least, I assume that she was referring to the toilet itself, and not simply providing a little too much information on her activities therein :lol: :lol:

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I'm actually blushing at all these mentions of boys! Good Chalet Girl, yes, well equipped for adult life? Evidently not.

Fiona Mc wrote:
I wish in some ways there was a common euphemism for bowel actions. As a nurse I have to ask about that and that's exactly what I call it, bowel actions or have you moved your bowels. The problem is I'm now getting blank looks from the younger generation as to what I'm talking about and then have to give its proper name of pooh which I find a little embarrassing or rude. I think its funny that some euphemisms are okay depending on the generation you're talking to.


Just to reassure you that at almost 20, I would have understood! Does that count as the younger generation, or am I old now? :? All that I can think of is "use the facilities", though I think that that can be used for either. You could just be blunt and ask about the scientific term, I suppose. Though apparently I'm using that in a euphemistic sense now!

Sorry I'll stop being rude now! :oops:

Author:  shesings [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

When I was in hospital with urinary problems as a seven year old I was totally baffled by the doctor asking when I last 'spent a penny'! Luckily, the nurse saw my bewilderment and asked when I had last done a pee.

Which recalls a possibly apocryphal story. As 'bowel' tends to be our local pronunciation of 'bowl', a young English doctor was flabbergasted when he asked an old lady when she had last moved her bowels and was told, "I wash them every Friday and put them back on the dresser when I have dusted it."

Author:  Alison H [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Tor wrote:
But of course, with the preponderance of standing up toilets in France


Oh don't! After a fortnight in France a few years ago, I came very close to writing to my MEP and demanding that France be suspended from the European Union until it did something about the standard of its "facilities" :lol: . I should've tried it, just to see how he replied!

Author:  Mrs Redboots [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

The amazing thing is that in some French motorway service areas (yes, we're back there!), they actually offer you a CHOICE - you can use a hole-in-the-ground one or a regular one. And this in the Ladies'!

Is it an age thing that I automatically refer to it as "having the curse" and don't even think of it as a euphemism? It was certainly the only term in use at school, except when you had to tell the games staff why you weren't swimming, and then it was just "Period, Miss X".

As for "going to the bathroom", this is all well and good in a, private house, but for me, it doesn't work in somewhere like a restaurant where the facilities are unlikely to include a bathtub!

My mother, for whom the word "lady" refers solely to the wife of a knight or similar title, tends to say that she is "going to be a lady" or "going to be a convenience to the public" when she needs to use a public one.

Author:  Fiona Mc [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Mrs Redboots wrote:
The amazing thing is that in some French motorway service areas (yes, we're back there!), they actually offer you a CHOICE - you can use a hole-in-the-ground one or a regular one. And this in the Ladies'!


After spending three weeks in India, the hole in the ground was usually the only option and toilet paper was a rarity, thank goodness my brother warned us and we took a ton of tissue with us. I didn't quite want to learn the art of washing the backside with my hand after going.

Author:  cal562301 [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Mrs Redboots wrote:
The amazing thing is that in some French motorway service areas (yes, we're back there!), they actually offer you a CHOICE - you can use a hole-in-the-ground one or a regular one. And this in the Ladies'!

Is it an age thing that I automatically refer to it as "having the curse" and don't even think of it as a euphemism? It was certainly the only term in use at school, except when you had to tell the games staff why you weren't swimming, and then it was just "Period, Miss X".


You get the choice in South Korea, too. The only drawback is that it's not always clear which is which, so you can find yourself unwittingly with a hole in the ground, when you prefer the other!

We used to say that to games' staff too, but we generally talked about 'coming' or 'being' on, which someone else mentioned. In a house with two much younger brothers, my sister and I learnt to be discreet about such things early on! :oops: :roll: :lol:

Which makes me wonder how big families like Joey's managed.

Author:  Rob [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Oops :oops: sorry if anyone thought I was being unnecessarily rude - I think you can keep your role as 'rude person' Chubby Monkey - I really don't want to have to live up to it!! Glad to have made a few people smile anyway! :lol:

I think the only other euphamisms for, er that part of a man's body, that I can think of are: trouser snake and the one eyed colonel.

Moving on, I came across Simone saying the following in Joey Goes which Jo certainly, appears to take for a euphamism for breast feeding:
Quote:
Jo, the twins don't really need you any longer do they?

Author:  Alison H [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Madge says something similar, in Gay I think, about Ailie being old enough not to "need" her any more.

The "being busy" one really confused me when I read my first CS book: it was Eustacia and I was only 7 or 8, and I couldn't understand why Gisela would miss her sister-in-law's wedding just because she was too "busy" to get down from the Sonnalpe, which I took to mean that she had a lot of housework to do :oops: :lol: .

Author:  julieanne1811 [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Reading the 'toilet' posts reminded me of an experience I had at Victoria Station in Mumbai (was Bombay then). I was there with my fellow workers and we had had a long 2 day journey from Kalkutta. We had to wait until the morning for our connection to our destination. We found a corridor that was fairly quiet and slept on the floor there. The time came, of course, when we needed to use the loo.
I don't know what happened with the boys, but in the ladies there was a person in charge, and she asked us what it was we wanted to do - pass urine or open our bowels, in medical parlance.
The thing was, if you wanted to do the first you were expected to use the holes in the ground which were on open display in the department, and if the latter, you could use the 'privat' facilities - they had a door.
I declined and used the private cubicles anyway.
When we came out there was a large barrel of water, into which people would scoop their hands in order to wash.
I wonder what the bacterial count was in that barrel?
In the house where we lived (next to the refugee camp where we were working) we only had the hole. I don't like it at all, but you can get used to anything. Before I left we had a meal all together in Kolakatta. I invited the camp lady who cleaned the house, and when she needed to use the facilitites there (Kathleens - the refuge of the homesick West ...), she was extremely bemused by the 'normal' toilet. She thought that she had to somehow get up onto the seat and then squat.

nb None of this is intended to be a criticism, or to imply that the facilities I am more used to are better. It's a report of differences, and I hope that no-one takes offence, since none is made ...

Author:  JB [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Alison H wrote:
The "being busy" one really confused me when I read my first CS book: it was Eustacia and I was only 7 or 8, and I couldn't understand why Gisela would miss her sister-in-law's wedding just because she was too "busy" to get down from the Sonnalpe, which I took to mean that she had a lot of housework to do :oops: :lol: .


And the Abbey Girls' euphemism for pregnancy is that they don't feel like dancing. Another easy one to miss for a chid.

Author:  Tor [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

When traveling on the train in India (second class, I'm not hardy enough to rough it in third or below :D :D ) there are usually two loos per carriage - and sometimes there is a 'European style' (terminology which always makes me laugh, given the French motorway experience) option. The hole-in-the-floor option is always preferable, as it is much, much cleaner. Indian trains are pretty clean, and the toilets get cleaned regularly, but the 'Indian' style toilets get more use, thus get cleaned more often, plus the people using it are (i) less likely to have tummy upsets and (ii) know better how to sluice out the area after use and to clean up after themselves.

Some of the cleanest, sweetest smelling toilets I have been too were long-drops in the mountains of Ladakh (north of Kashmir, on the Indian-Tibetan border). It is so cold and dry there that things don't fester and decay much (hence little to no smell), and the local practice is to toss in a handful of earth after yourself to cover up your 'deposit'. After a few years the toilet pits are dug out and used as fertilizer. Very sensible. They had great views too, as most cubicles were three sided. Though the day I had a crowd of giggling school kids gather to watch was a litte disconcerting :lol: :lol: :oops: :oops:

Traveling in Tanzania, most public facilities at bus-stations were communal drains. You get over caring pretty quickly when you have to do stuff quick smart and make the scary-held-together-by-string bus before it goes without you. Makes wearing a sarong or skirt much more sensible than trousers.

On the subject of hand-washing etc, most of places in Africa (not sure about India...?) have manners which say you only eat with one particular hand (and obviously only shake hands using this one too; I can never remember which, though, so always make an error :oops: ) because the other is reserved for personal hygiene purposes!

Quite a difference to travelling by train to the CS!

Author:  Loryat [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Rob wrote:
I think the only other euphamisms for, er that part of a man's body, that I can think of are: trouser snake and the one eyed colonel.

Surely the colonel has two eyes, or am I thinking about this the wrong way? :D

Author:  Tor [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I don't think we are talking two eyes either side of a nose, here, loryat! :wink:

Author:  Rob [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Tor wrote:
I don't think we are talking two eyes either side of a nose, here, loryat! :wink:


Quite right Tor, definately just the one eye ... like er, one lens at the end of a telescope! :lol:

Author:  MJKB [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Rob wrote:
Quite right Tor, definately just the one eye ... like er, one lens at the end of a telescope!


I'd say I was probably in my twenties before I'd have copped that one!

I love the minutiae of the CS; the bath lists, the bed making, the dormitory duties etc, I found all of that really, really interesting. Few other GO literature goes into such fine detail. In AF's Kingscote there is a veiled reference to periods. Can't remember which book, but it was the one where Ginty tries to give the A Level maths paper to Patrick. Ginty goes to bed and one of her friends thinks it might be for some 'embarrassing' reason.

Author:  linda [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Mrs Redboots wrote:
It was certainly the only term in use at school, except when you had to tell the games staff why you weren't swimming, and then it was just "Period, Miss X".


I was once hauled into school to explain just why my son thought he could get away with not swimming by saying "Period, Miss X"! He was fifteen and decided that it wasn't fair that the boys had to swim every week when some of the girls seemed to manage to get most weeks off by using this excuse!!!

He did survive, but only just, but he never tried that excuse again! :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

Author:  LauraMcC [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

That's brilliant! :D Maybe it wasn't for you at the time, but it made me chuckle!

Although, I would have died rather than tell my teacher that I had my period. Instead, I used to just tell them that I'd forgotten my swimming kit, and the teachers used to let me get away with it. I wouldn't even use a euphemism - it's just something that I would never feel comfortable with talking about at all, especially not to a teacher. :oops:

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

To go back a little bit, my dad had to explain to me what a one-eyed snake was. I must have been about sixteen at the time :oops: One of the many excrutiating moments in my childhood where "the facts of life" had to be explained!

I never really got the opportunity to use the period excuse, because I only started a year before I gave up P.E., and in that time I only managed to miss one lesson on swimming because we never did it. Yes, I was always too good to lie!

Author:  Nightwing [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Of course there were always girls who thought they could get out of swimming by pleading their period even when they didn't have it, but our PE teachers were mostly pretty good about it - mostly. One of my friends wasn't swimming one day, and told her teacher she had her period, and the teacher said she didn't believe her and she was going to have to swim. My friend got very angry and offered to show the teacher her knickers as proof - the teacher dropped the subject at that point...

I always got my mother to write me a note, so it would never be an issue!

Author:  Miss Di [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Why would you not swim just because you have your period?

I can understand Ginty not having to access to tampons but surely most people under 40 would have?

Author:  tiffinata [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I wonder what would happen if we combined a couple of these?

Joey is in the throes of early pregnancy and is 'unwell'

'What's wrong with Mamma? Auntie Rob?'
She's had a visit from Steve and the twins, Len'

So Len goes off and tells Miss Wilson that her brother is making her mother sick.

OR 'Joey's been bitten by a trouser snake'
*wonders why Len runs off crying that Mamma's going to die from a reptile bite

I am evil! :twisted:

Author:  RubyGates [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Miss Di wrote:
Why would you not swim just because you have your period?

I can understand Ginty not having to access to tampons but surely most people under 40 would have?


Well I'm under 40 and I've never used tampons

There was a girl in my year at school who refused to use tampons because her mother told her she'd lose her virginity if she did. :roll:

Author:  Nightwing [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

RubyGates wrote:
Well I'm under 40 and I've never used tampons


Me neither - I just don't find them comfortable. Cramps and headaches and mood swings are bad enough without suffering from additional discomfort!

Author:  JB [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

tiffinata wrote:
OR 'Joey's been bitten by a trouser snake'
*wonders why Len runs off crying that Mamma's going to die from a reptile bite

I am evil! :twisted:


You may be evil but you may also have found a reason for Len's fear of snakes. :twisted:

Author:  julieanne1811 [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Huh!! I am becoming more and more cross with my games teachers - we were only excused a shower if we were having a period, so the teacher would take a register at the start of the lesson (in the changing rooms). If we were having a period we had to call out 'P, Miss). And it was marked in the register .... so the teacher knew the likelyhood of the truth and would challenge anyone whose cycle appeared to be erratic.
I think I went to the wrong school ...

Author:  Llywela [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Nightwing wrote:
RubyGates wrote:
Well I'm under 40 and I've never used tampons


Me neither - I just don't find them comfortable. Cramps and headaches and mood swings are bad enough without suffering from additional discomfort!

Me three. I've only ever used tampons when absolutely necessary - for example, at school when competing in a swimming regata and therefore completely unable to get out of it. Ordinarily I would have just not swam during my period. I find tampons uncomfortable.

Author:  Alison H [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

julieanne1811 wrote:
Huh!! I am becoming more and more cross with my games teachers - we were only excused a shower if we were having a period, so the teacher would take a register at the start of the lesson (in the changing rooms). If we were having a period we had to call out 'P, Miss). And it was marked in the register .... so the teacher knew the likelyhood of the truth and would challenge anyone whose cycle appeared to be erratic.
I think I went to the wrong school ...


That's horrendous - how totally embarrassing :shock: .

At our school, you were excused swimming if you had a verruca, on the grounds that they were catching. (Do they still make verruca socks, incidentally?) One girl in our class had a verruca which mysteriously reappeared every time it was our class's turn to do swimming (for some weird timetabling reason we had swimming some terms but not others), and the teacher - who used to pick on me for the slightest thing! - just seemed to buy this! For five years, this girl claimed to have a verruca every time we had swimming, and got away with it :lol: .

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Me four! Horrible things.

I did use to get mum to write me notes that may well have said "Look, she really can't be bothered, ok?" for all the truth and veracity that they had to them. Though in fairness, my worst year - year 9 - I was diagnosed half-way through with anaemia, which would explain why I really couldn't be bothered... I think that if the teachers had actually cared I wouldn't have got away with it, and nor would any of the other half the class who always tried it, but they really didn't.

Author:  MJKB [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I have just this minute copped the steve and twins!
EBD did use a fair amount of euphemisms, but everyone did back then. I thought she made the fact that Joey breastfed very nearly explicit in Exile. The first time I read it I was flabberghasted.

Author:  judithR [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

tiffinata wrote:
I wonder what would happen if we combined a couple of these?

Joey is in the throes of early pregnancy and is 'unwell'

'What's wrong with Mamma? Auntie Rob?'
She's had a visit from Steve and the twins, Len'

So Len goes off and tells Miss Wilson that her brother is making her mother sick.

OR 'Joey's been bitten by a trouser snake'
*wonders why Len runs off crying that Mamma's going to die from a reptile bite

I am evil! :twisted:


Crossing with discussion on the "Joey & languages" thread. Could her lack of mathematical ability and large number of children be connected?

I'm thinking here of the maths necessary to play Vatican Roulette.

Author:  Loryat [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Tor wrote:
I don't think we are talking two eyes either side of a nose, here, loryat! :wink:


Lol, after thinking about it a bit more I got the picture! :oops:

I actaully quite like it in Friends when Joey calls it 'the little general' and Chandler asks him if he didn't used to call it 'the little major' and Joey explains that he had to promote it. :lol: So I really should have figured out that euphemism faster than I did! :oops:

Author:  Alison H [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

How many people who read Judy Blume's Forever when they were about 12 have to suppress the urge to snigger if they meet someone called Ralph?

(Apologies to anyone whose SLOC, son, dad, brother or friend is called Ralph!)

Author:  julieanne1811 [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I was engaged to a Swiss guy called Rolf ...

Author:  JB [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Alison H wrote:
How many people who read Judy Blume's Forever when they were about 12 have to suppress the urge to snigger if they meet someone called Ralph?


Oh yes. I still have that book. It is very dog-eared from being passed around my form at school. :lol:

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I fear I'm going to look stupid and regret asking this, but curiosity has killed my cat many times; what is Vatican Roulette please?

Author:  Alison H [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I assume Judith meant that Jo and Jack may have made at attempt at "natural" family planning but that it evidently didn't work :D . Mind you, Jo said something to Jack about how they ought to "think about" having another kid, when Mike was a toddler, so maybe they did plan to have so many (bearing in mind that 7 of the 11 were multiple births) and if they hadn't done any "planning" then they'd've had even more ...

ETA - she'd only've had 7 if she hadn't had so many multiple births! & there are gaps between Charles and Mike, and Mike and Felix 'n' Felicity.

Hmm ...

Author:  Nightwing [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I also have no idea, Ariel, but I'm guessing it's a reference to the rhythm method, which is a method of contraception approved by the Catholic Church but not at all scientifically proven (so your chance of getting pregnant are still quite high)?

Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - I'm not trying to be offensive!

Author:  Artemis [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Having been brought up as a Catholic. I'm OK with joking about it . . . We all did. Somehow it was the nuns at my convent school who were the worst, followed by my Irish cousins who were convent educated schoolgirls.

Vatican Roulette is the rhythm method of natural family planning - hence giving rise to the standard joke my mum and her cohorts used to tell:

Q: What do you call Catholics who use the rhythm method?
A: Parents!

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Aah, trusty Wikipedia! I hope that nobody is following my internet usage, given that I'm on the university network :oops:

Thanks for making sense of it! (I had to look up rhythm method) I guess that would make sense, given Jack's profession.

Author:  MJKB [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Artemis wrote:
Q: What do you call Catholics who use the rhythm method?
A: Parents!


A friend of mine's mother went to confession and confessed to having resorted to artificial birth control. She was advised by the priest to use the rhythm method and replied that the result of having usedthe rhythm method was parked in a pram outside the confession box! Having said that, they have made great strides lately in the accuracy of natural planning, or so I've been told. Natural methods, if they work, have got to be better than pumping hormoines into one's system.
What's this about Ralph and Judy Blume?

Author:  judithR [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Artemis wrote:
Vatican Roulette is the rhythm method of natural family planning - hence giving rise to the standard joke my mum and her cohorts used to tell:

Q: What do you call Catholics who use the rhythm method?
A: Parents


Full marks.

Author:  JB [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

MJKB wrote:
What's this about Ralph and Judy Blume?


Forever is a novel by Judy Blume, which was pretty explicit for a book aimed at teenagers. The hero christens a certain part of his anatomy" "Ralph". It was very popular book in the 1980s.

Author:  jmc [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

My school library gave up trying to replace the copies of it as they kept disappearing. Quite a number turned up though when people cleaned out their lockers at the end of the year.

Author:  MJKB [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

JB wrote:
Forever is a novel by Judy Blume, which was pretty explicit for a book aimed at teenagers. The hero christens a certain part of his anatomy" "Ralph". It was very popular book in the 1980s.
MJKB wrote:
What's this about Ralph and Judy Blume?


Forever is a novel by Judy Blume, which was pretty explicit for a book aimed at teenagers. The hero christens a certain part of his anatomy" "Ralph". It was very popular book in the 1980s.


Thanks! Our lovely caretaker's name is Ralph!

Author:  Catherine [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I've discovered another euphemism ... in Trials, Joey tells Felicity that if she wants to 'go out' she has to wait until the interval and then ask Josette to take her.

Author:  ChubbyMonkey [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

And I've just been reading Cixous, and men's "enticement machines". Is it bad that I laughed until I nearly cried?

I've been thinking about it, and I feel that I should say that I do like EBD's euphemisms, for at least being discreet and yet still quite informative. Though one would think that the last thing one would want to be while pregnant is busy...

Author:  MJKB [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

ChubbyMonkey wrote:
I've been thinking about it, and I feel that I should say that I do like EBD's euphemisms, for at least being discreet and yet still quite informative. Though one would think that the last thing one would want to be while pregnant is busy

I agree. Actually, that scene in Rescue where Jack and Joey are in bed together is very daring indeed for the time. Wasn't there some regulation in Hollywood at the time forbidding a man and a woman, whether married or otherwise, to be fully under the covers together.

Author:  Nightwing [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

MJKB wrote:
Wasn't there some regulation in Hollywood at the time forbidding a man and a woman, whether married or otherwise, to be fully under the covers together.


On a tangent, and I'm sure you've all noticed this before, but I love the special "L" shaped covers that must be all the rage in Hollywood, because how else does every bed scene have a man with a bare chest lying next to a lady covered up to her neck?

Author:  JB [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

MJKB wrote:
I agree. Actually, that scene in Rescue where Jack and Joey are in bed together is very daring indeed for the time. Wasn't there some regulation in Hollywood at the time forbidding a man and a woman, whether married or otherwise, to be fully under the covers together.


I think there was one that said if a couple were on a bed, at least one of them had to have their foot on the floor.

Author:  Tor [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

not that that would prevent much, in my experience... :wink:

Author:  Nesomja [ Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

judithR wrote:
JB wrote:
In Barbara Vine's Asta's Book, the euphemisim for a period is important to the plot. It involves a diary from the early 20th century which is translated from Danish and, once the modern characters understand the euphemism, they realise that someone referred to in the diary couldn't have been pregnant.


Wasn't it "having visitors"? Which rather spoilt the story as it was very obvious, early on, to those of us brought up in a more euphemistic age.

I'd forgotten to add "nettie" (North-East England) and "pennyhouse" (Yorkshire woman), also "going down to the bottom of the garden" - presumably to see the fairies!



No I thought it was something like 'her red flower bloomed'?

Author:  cal562301 [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Nesomja wrote:
judithR wrote:
JB wrote:
In Barbara Vine's Asta's Book, the euphemisim for a period is important to the plot. It involves a diary from the early 20th century which is translated from Danish and, once the modern characters understand the euphemism, they realise that someone referred to in the diary couldn't have been pregnant.


Wasn't it "having visitors"? Which rather spoilt the story as it was very obvious, early on, to those of us brought up in a more euphemistic age.

I'd forgotten to add "nettie" (North-East England) and "pennyhouse" (Yorkshire woman), also "going down to the bottom of the garden" - presumably to see the fairies!


No I thought it was something like 'her red flower bloomed'?


It's a long time since I read that book, but I think it was 'visitor in the house', which meant absolutely nothing to me until it was explained.

Maybe I'm not as old as I thought! :lol: :halo:

Edited once to remove reply from middle of quote! :roll:

Author:  JB [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Her "red flower bloomed" is mentioned. I think the translation in the English, published version of Asta's diaries is "visitor in the house" but the original Danish is something different which didn't have a literal translation. I think that's where red flower comes in as well as explanations of other euphemisms that would have translated more directly. One of them was "she was her dirt" which I thought was horrible.

Author:  judithR [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Catherine wrote:
I've discovered another euphemism ... in Trials, Joey tells Felicity that if she wants to 'go out' she has to wait until the interval and then ask Josette to take her.


I remember this from RL at about the time the book was published. I thought the meaning was a bit too clear for EBD. At this time one also asked to "wash ones's hands". The meaning would, I think, have been clear to most primary school children at that time.

A propos being busy. At work we went through a phase of describing it as "with child" or "increasing" as a reaction to the (IMO) ghastly "sprogging".

And can anyone remind me in which guide Wainwright refers to a Useful Little Building? We though this was hilarious when we were young.

Author:  Loryat [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

judithR wrote:
A propos being busy. At work we went through a phase of describing it as "with child" or "increasing" as a reaction to the (IMO) ghastly "sprogging".

I like both these old world expressions. Though I think my favourite is Madge's 'the family's having an extension'. And I'd love to use the 'busy' euphemism if only anyone I knew was going to understand what it meant! I don't think I figured it out till I was an adult! I just assumed it meant people were busy because they already had the baby. :oops: Really though I think I'd just say I was pregnant.

Sprogging is ghastly. (IMO).

Author:  Shander [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

The one I hate most in regards to being pregnant actually comes to Jane Austen. She writes in a letter that 'Mrs. So-and-So is breeding again'. All I can say is that for it sounds way to much like she's a horse, or a dog.

Author:  Tor [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I like it for that exact reason. It is particularly appropriate for a period when women were treated like brood mares. In fact it isn't even a euphemism. It is a statement of fact.

The Mitford sisters' reference to being 'in pig', or referring to having to kill a few more bunnies always made me laugh. By being so crass, it serves the underline how ridiculous it is to use a euphemism for a perfectly natural and beautiful thing. Though I'm not sure that was what they meant to do!! :wink:

Author:  cestina [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

There's also "to be in pod". Slightly more refined than "in pig" :D

Author:  Loryat [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Shander wrote:
The one I hate most in regards to being pregnant actually comes to Jane Austen. She writes in a letter that 'Mrs. So-and-So is breeding again'. All I can say is that for it sounds way to much like she's a horse, or a dog.

That's not really a euphemism at all, is it? I always thought it was funny that 18th/19th C ladies would use an expression that sounds more like pregnant than 'pregant'.

Author:  Alison H [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I'm never sure who understood these euphemisms and who just didn't know what was going on until a baby arrived! In Exile, Robin (aged about 16) tells Polly (about 18?) that she doesn't want to discuss the Gertrud problem with Jo because Jack said that Jo "wasn't to be worried", and Polly obviously understands what she means, but I'm never sure whether or not Jo understands what Madge means by saying that the reason Gisela can't get to Innsbruck for Kurt and Bernie's wedding is that she's "very busy".

I wonder what exactly were the hints that Madge and Jem gave that Madge was expecting baby no 2 (Sybil) which Jo didn't get because she was being "unaccountably thick". Did Madge say "Well, of course in another couple of months' time I won't be able to take long walks because I'm going to be very busy, and Jem says that I'm not to be worried," and then wonder exactly what she had to do for Jo to cotton on :? :lol: ?

Author:  JB [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I also wonder whether Robin understands why Jo isn't to be worried. It reads to me as though she doesn't, although Polly obviously understands.

Madge does hint to Joey that although she'll be able to teach at the Annexe for the first term, she won't be after that (or something along those lines :? ).

Author:  Sarah_G-G [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I have to admit, when I was a child I didn't understand at all why "Joey wasn't to be worried." As it was still fairly soon after the escape from Austria when she'd collapsed, and after all the Tyrol years when she'd gone through so many illnesses, I always thought it meant she was ill again. :oops: I can remember worrying we were going to have another Margot Venables thing and being so relieved when it turned out she was just pregnant!

Author:  Loryat [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

I also just thought that Joey wasn't well. :oops: I think it's an easy enough misunderstanding when that's more or less her natural state! I don't think I ever really connected 'Joey not being worried', having her breakfast in bed etc with the fact that she later went on to have triplets. :oops: I was used to my mum, while heavily pregnant, taking us to school and cooking the tea.

JB wrote:
I also wonder whether Robin understands why Jo isn't to be worried. It reads to me as though she doesn't, although Polly obviously understands.

Surely Robin must have twigged, based on Joey's size if nothing else! If Joey was having triplets she muct have been pretty big even in August/September, considering the babies were born at the beginning of November.

Author:  JennieP [ Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Euphemisms

Now have a lovely mental image of Robin saying to Joey:

"You know, you've put on some weight, Jo. You keep saying you're eating for two now - maybe you should cut down a bit?"...

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