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#1: Broken hearts and physical illnesses Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:32 pm
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Just been reading Lorna at Wynyards - thanks to Catherine who's very kindly lent me her copy - in which (although it happens before the story opens and isn't gone into in much detail) Lorna's eldest sister collapsed the day after a man she'd been involved with married someone else and was seriously ill for a long time afterwards, to the extent that "no-one thought she coud live; and, for a time, it seemed better that she shouldn't". It was partly due to "overwork" but the suggestion is that it was mainly due to her distress about her broken romance.

That made me think about Juliet, who was ill for several months and had to miss part of a term at college after Donal ended their relationship, and Grizel who - although she'd had a lot of other things to cope with (Deira's daughter's death, her stepmother's death, the sale of the business) - was close to a nervous breakdown after the man she'd been interested in got engaged to Deira.

I'm trying to think of other examples in literature where someone suffers a serious illness, or an illness that might otherwise have been minor drags on for a long time, because of a broken romance, and I'm sure there must be loads but I'm not doing very well so I'm hoping someone else might have more ideas!

Marianne Dashwood in Sense and Sensibility's about the best I can come up with at the moment. Jane Eyre becomes ill after finding out that Mr Rochester is already married, but that's due more to exhaustion and hunger after walking a long way without eating because she'd lost her purse.

The only other broken romance I can think of in the CS books is Anna's with Tom Evans, and in that case a) it seems to've been Anna who broke it off and b) Anna presumably just had to cope.

I do wish I could learn not to waffle so much ... Embarassed

#2: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:49 pm
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But can anyone think of any in real life? The trouble with EBD IMO and other writers too, is that they take their inspiration from each other rather from observations from life.

#3: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:50 pm
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You aren't waffling - it's really interesting. Very Happy

I suppose it is possible to be so disappointed by a failed romance that chronic depression sets in, which would lead to a weaker immune system and leave you more open to catching or developing illnesses. It's definitely a very romantic idea!

#4: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:53 pm
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'The Mill On The Floss'. Maggie's cousin, the good girl, is ill after Maggie and Stephen are carried away by the floods on the river.

#5: Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:24 am
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I don't know of any cases in books but I remember a friend of mine had another friend die at 24 of literally a broken heart. Her long time boyfriend broke it off for someone else and she died soon after. Autopsy revealed nothing other than her heart just stopped. A lot assumed it was from a broken heart and as a nurse I hear of a lot of spouses dying within days or weeks of their partners death so it stands to reason it could happen if someone felt deep enough about someone else that this could happen

#6: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:39 am
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Stress can cause a lot of physical symptoms, as well as depressing the immune system. In addition, a lot of emphasis was put on not showing a great deal of emotional response to merely emotional triggers (stiff upper lip and all that) so I wouldn't be surprised if a normal grief response manifested itself physically, in a more accepted way.

#7: Author: claire, Location: South Wales

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:34 am
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I thought it was a botched abortion (or just having a baby and giving up for adoption) after getting pregnant by a married man (a doctor I reckon) and the overwork was just what they said to cover it

#8: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:25 am
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Stress, depression, just not wanting to live any more.

I'm of the age when, sadly, the parents of many of my contemporaries are reaching the end of their lives. Almost every time, when one parent dies, the other follows within weeks or months. I know that when one of my parents goes, the other will probably follow within days - they just won't want to be here without the other.

#9: Author: Kat, Location: Little Venice/Swansea

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:21 pm
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It is medical fact that you can die of a 'broken' heart. I can't remember the details, but I'll try and look out some of the lit I found about it.

#10: Author: Rosie, Location: Land of Three-Quarters Sky

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:27 pm
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Madame Bovary.

Ok, so it was suicide, but close...

#11: Author: Sunglass, Location: Usually London

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:00 pm
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But everyone in the CS books somatises almost every kind of violent emotion, not just romantic disappointment - it seems to be one of EBD's axioms! One of Joey's least likeable moments is her blaming of Eustacia for Robin being worried over their non-return from the glacier, but the book does ask us to believe that anxiety translates itself into physical illness. People seem to make themselves ill a lot - and everyone seems to express things physically. The CS is full of people fainting from relief, going delirious or sleepwalking from overwork, having to go to bed for a day or several after a fit of hysterical crying, usually in Miss Annersley's study after they've been bad etc.

I mean, obviously our mental and physical health is connected, but EBD never lets anyone feel anything without some immediate, often quite serious physical effect. The one thing I can't think of a reference to is someone getting thin from not eating, presumably because Matey would immediately know and dose them.

#12: Author: Ray, Location: Bristol, England

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:24 am
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Sunglass wrote:

but the book does ask us to believe that anxiety translates itself into physical illness.

Err, it does - or it can do if it's unchecked.

The phrase "worried herself sick" exists for an excellent reason...

Ray *has first hand experience*

#13: Author: Sunglass, Location: Usually London

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:21 am
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I didn't say that very clearly. Of course longterm serious anxiety can make you ill, but just as EBD seems to over-react violently to any of her characters getting so much as their feet wet (Hilda Annersley, the aspirin and the brandy, for one instance!), she also translates short or discrete periods of anxiety or fear or what have you (apparently the mental equivalent of getting your feet wet!) into immediate kinds of fairly serious physical distress or side-effect. Even leaving Joey's unusual psychological fragility aside, you have Bill going white overnight, the Robin apparently being made quite seriously ill by one night of anxiety etc etc. She seems to view bodies as very fragile indeed, and very liable to be violently affected by mental states - robust good health seems to be a bit dull.

I know that the school's connection to the San 'explains' in a realistic way the presence of a lot of fragile girls, but the more I think about it, the more it seems EBD heightens a huge number of her plotlines with illness or physical ill effects.

#14: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:03 am
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It does seem a bit much that Robin is apparently "set back a year" (or words to that effect) because of one night of worry, during which Anne would presumably have kept reassuring her that Joey & co would have found shelter anyway. If she was that fragile then surely she shouldn't've been on the trip anyway.

#15: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:37 pm
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And Robin should know from previous experience about the abundance of
huts to shelter in. It seems that EBD actually admired fragility. Her favourite character, Joey is weak physically and mentally, especially as she gets older. As Head Girl she faints at Alixe Von Elsen sleep-walking, at fishing a dummy out of the lake and with emotion watching the Passion Play.

#16: Author: Sunglass, Location: Usually London

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:07 pm
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Maybe Robin hasn't yet been at the school long enough to realise that there are entire relays of sheds, chalets and haybarns all over the Austrian and Swiss Alps, specifically for the CS girls to take refuge in, eat oniony stews and get hay in their hair while waiting out blizzards!

But you're right that EBD clearly admires physical fragility - which seems oddly Victorian of her, and also odd in books in which the San and serious illness is such a preoccupation. Is it simply that fragility makes for more story, and more cliff-hangers? If Joey wasn't at death's door once a book (I exaggerate) or Robin wasn't so romantically threatened and gallant, where would the CS be? I have to say everyone would have got in far more lessons, though, if the slightest wetting wasn't immediately followed by hot baths and bed. The one that used to crack me up in particular when I was little was in Shocks, where Matey behaves as if the prefects have escaped from mortal terror in deadly quicksand, when they've just got rather muddy when they jump on the sunken path that turns out to be a stream. Why this required a lassoo, and why some of them are all heavy-eyed and white afterwards is entirely beyond me!

#17: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:16 pm
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Don't forget that until relatively recently - certainly within my lifetime and that of many readers of this board - bedrest was thought to be seriously necessary. Today, people are encouraged to be up and about as much as possible; when I was a kid, you were kept in bed, not only while you were actively ill, but for at least 24 hours after your temperature had gone down, and it was usually several days after that before you were allowed to resume normal life. And if you had TB, you were invariably on 24/7 bedrest for several weeks or months, in addition to other treatments.

So whisking the girls off to bed after the least shock or disaster was, in fact, quite normal. And I don't know about you, but I've often ended up with a bad headache after a fit of crying, and been glad to lie down with a cup of tea for an hour or two!

Incidentally, didn't Joey puke, rather than faint, at the sight of what she thought was a dead body?

#18: Author: Róisín, Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:19 pm
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That's something that never occurred to me before - EBD actually admiring physical frailty - and now that it's been pointed out it rings very true! Maybe she equated it with being delicate, or, dare I say it... feminine? At least maybe one kind of femininity - a Victorian way of being female maybe?

#19: Author: Sunglass, Location: Usually London

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:46 pm
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I think Roisin is right to suggest that frailty is linked to EBD's version of femininity. After all, the CS series is written over a period that saw enormous changes in women's rights, education and expectations, and you can see EBD gamely trying to work out where she stood on women's professions and their compatibility with marriage, and giving us things like Elfie Woodward and Mary-Lou faced with a choice of helping out at home or their own professional lives. You could argue that frailty puts a fence of physical (or biological?) limitations around a woman's choices, and returns her to a more 'traditional' position of dependency, which EBD may have found soothing. (Like the permanently infantilised Robin whose health depends on her total obedience, with the rather sinister suggestion of imminent death if she doesn't do what she's told, and who is more like Beth March than a CS Middle a lot of the time.) Of course, ill-health also throws the fragile woman into the path of eligible doctors!

#20: Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:52 pm
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There is also the fact that she lost her own brother when he was still a child. Child mortality was much higher when she was growing up, so anything that might threaten their health was dealt with ruthlessly.

#21: Author: lizarfau, Location: Melbourne

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:30 pm
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Róisín wrote:

That's something that never occurred to me before - EBD actually admiring physical frailty - and now that it's been pointed out it rings very true! Maybe she equated it with being delicate, or, dare I say it... feminine? At least maybe one kind of femininity - a Victorian way of being female maybe?

Not necessarily Victorian! Those girls and women who pursue extreme slimness and value the 'hipless and helpless' look could be said to have a similar view of femininity.

#22: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:32 pm
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What I always found amusing was that after Robin had been forced to walk from Austria to Switzerland, we hear very little of her poor health, instead she is portrayed as Jo's mainstay, a supernumary nanny, and general household help until she tries to do settlement work after university.

And the air in the Tyrol is supposed to be so bracing and health-giving!

#23: Author: MaryR, Location: Cheshire

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:17 pm
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Sunglass wrote:

but just as EBD seems to over-react violently to any of her characters getting so much as their feet wet (Hilda Annersley, the aspirin and the brandy, for one instance!),

But it actually says in the book that Hilda knew Matey was right, as she didn't want epidemics in the school. One cold can sweep through an enclosed comminity in nothing flat. And in the days before the war, there were no antibiotics to help illnesses so of course there was a great deal of caution at the least sign of physical frailty. Pneumonia and measles, to name but two diseases, were killers.

And people CAN pass out at good or bad news. I've seen it happen more than once. And as Mrs Redboots says, a crying fit really does leave you ready for bed. And if you have also had a session with the Head, then bed might seem altogether rather pleasant. Laughing

#24: Author: Sunglass, Location: Usually London

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:28 pm
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That's a good point, Jennie - Robin's frailty is indeed strangely selective! It's fine for her to be the mini-Angel in the House, but not to grub about in the East End, but again is OK enough for her to be a nun, which if EBD were being realistic, would have needed decent health, particularly with a physically harsher pre-Vatican II regime. But - while I acknowledge the points people are making about other times, other thoughts re. health and sickness - I don't think we can ascribe all of EBD's depictions of frail and illness-prone women to her just reflecting her times. I always note that virtually no-one ever admits to feeling ill themselves, far less reports themselves to Matey - they soldier on with their headaches, toothaches, backaches or incipient breakdowns until some authority figure comes and diagnoses them and puts them to bed. Was this some kind of displaced not-quite Muchausen's Syndrome on EBD's part? Was she a closet hypochandriac who wished some all-seeing Matey would come along and order bedrest? Why did she find illness so interesting?

I've often wondered which settlement EBD is likely to have envisioned Robin in - I think the Oxford Settlement was single sex at the time, though there were others run by and for women and some mixed-sex ones which were run like ashrams, and even one which had a group that specialised in teaching children English folk dances, where I can imagine Robin shining, after all those Saturday night dances!

#25: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:58 pm
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One point that does strike me is that in every book, or does it just seem like it, soeone in authority in the school says that health comes first with them, so that 's why the pupils are whisked off to bed at the first sign of anything.

#26: Author: Catherine, Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:48 pm
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Bed after a crying fit is probably the best place to be - and as MaryR points out, after a session with the Head, it's probably the one place they do want to be! Very Happy

Of course nobody openly admits to feeling unwell - generally, there is little or no story to be gained from someone going to Matey and confessing to feeling ill ... surely the reason why EBD portrays her characters as soldiering on is to show the effect of their illness on other people.

In Challenge, there would have been a whole chapter at least, lost, if Kathie had gone to Matey and said she wasn't feeling well. Again, in Leader, there would have been at least one less chapter if Miss Andrews hadn't been up and about when she was feeling ill and shoved the snake in a handy drawer. In Bride, the storyline regarding Julie Lucy would never have happened etc etc.

Illness is a plot device, used to arouse sympathy from the reader, either for the invalid or other characters and sometimes to punish a character for deliberately disobeying an order and thus show the reader that actions have consequences etc.

#27: Author: Tiffany, Location: Is this a duck I see behind me?

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:13 pm
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Are there no isntances of hypochondriac girls, who use the school's health first bedrest policy to get out of maths tests? They were missing an opportunity, if so...

#28: Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:46 pm
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Tiffany wrote:

Are there no instances of hypochondriac girls, who use the school's health first bedrest policy to get out of maths tests? They were missing an opportunity, if so...

Not if the consequences might be castor oil Shocked

#29: Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:53 pm
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Plus I bet it would be seen as dishonourable! After all, they all own up straight away don't they?! Not to do so isn't to be thought of.

#30: Author: Holly,

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:11 pm
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catherine wrote:

Given some of Matey's pet remedies, is it really that surprising that the girls wouldn't go to her voluntarily unless they were at death's door?

Why do you think her "tooth inspections" could round up multiple victims? If I had to go to a dentist without anaesthetic, I'd keep quiet about a toothache as long as I could.

Once the cure is no longer worse than the disease, it's another story.

#31: Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:18 am
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Holly wrote:

catherine wrote:

I never understood that purely because I never have anaesthetic for any of my fillings. And couldn't see what the fuss was about. I used to love visiting the dentist! Weird I know. The dentist thinks my nerve isn't so close to the root of the tooth and therefore doesn't cause pain like in most people. Thank goodness for that.

#32: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:32 am
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Tiffany wrote:

Are there no isntances of hypochondriac girls, who use the school's health first bedrest policy to get out of maths tests? They were missing an opportunity, if so...

Certainly not! Shocked

No decent Chalet School girl would do so, as witnessed by the fact that the only EBD character that does so is Edna Purdon in CS in the Oberland - and strictly speaking, Edna is not a proper Chalet School Girl. Actually, I rather love that scene and shall quote it for you all:

Quote:

“Aren’t you well?” Miss Nalder asked.
“I ache so!” Edna’s voice was perilously near a whine. “I hit myself in several places this morning and I’m sore all over. Please, Miss Nalder, I really don’t feel well.”
“Dear me!” Miss Nalder sounded suitably impressed. “Perhaps you had better go to Matron.” She kept a wary eye on the girl, nevertheless, for Edna had had a heavy cold, and had left sick-room only the day before. “Come along and we’ll see what she has to say.”
Edna followed her to Matron’s room, where that lady was refreshing herself with a cup of coffee, a cigarette and a novel, and Miss Nalder explained what was wrong. Matron had had some experience of Edna by this time, and her lips suddenly tightened. All she said was a request that the girl would go to sick-room and prepare for examination. Edna went, and the two elders conferred together.
“I don’t suppose there’s a thing the matter with her but using muscles she generally doesn’t use at all,” Matron said. “She’s a whiner and tries to get out of everything that means physical activity.”
“Are you telling me!” Miss Nalder gave a sniff. “I have her for P.T., remember. Gwyn, if there really is nothing wrong with her, don’t you make bed or anything like that a jolly time.”
“Don’t you worry! I’ve quite enough to do without running round after malades imaginaires!” Matron assured her. “I’ll be back in a few minutes. Wait here for me and have a cigarette.”
Miss Nalder sat down and waited and presently Matron returned. “Well, I’ve sent her to bed,” she said. “Nothing really wrong apart from a couple of small bruises. The trouble is she’s been so babied all her life that the slightest knock seems like a grave injury to her. She’ll be sorry to-morrow, for she’ll be as lame as a tree with stiffness. However, I’ve ordered her into a hot soda bath and I’ll rub some liniment in. Then she can go to bed in sick-room—on invalid diet!”

It's glorious EBD description, wonderfully in character for Matey, and shows a good side to Miss Nalder, too.

The only other scene that is even vaguely similar is one in Visitors, when Evadne gets out of maths by pretending to Miss Maynard that she has a blood nose. (I would quote it, but it's about half a chapter and thus far too long.)[/quote]

#33: Author: Lottie, Location: Humphrey's Corner

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:10 am
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KB wrote:

The only other scene that is even vaguely similar is one in Visitors, when Evadne gets out of maths by pretending to Miss Maynard that she has a blood nose.

I always feel that that is much more like playing a trick, rather than actually malingering.

#34: Author: Rosie, Location: Land of Three-Quarters Sky

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:43 am
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As a side-note, just how fine is the expression "lame as a tree"?!

#35: Author: Ariel, Location: Hither Green, London

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:43 am
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Rosie wrote:

As a side-note, just how fine is the expression "lame as a tree"?!

It's wonderful! *stores it for future use*

#36: Author: Maeve, Location: Romania

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:40 pm
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I think maybe EBD did admire, or, at least, romanticized physical frailty if it was somehow connected to creativity. In CS and Jo we find:

Quote:

Madge turned eyes of horror on him. ‘Jem! Jo isn’t ill?’
‘No, no!’ he replied quickly. ‘She really is much stronger than I had ever thought possible. But she does such mad things, and she feels so intensely. She has lost weight this past week with worry over the Robin. A nature like hers is sometimes more of a curse then a blessing. She has wonderful moments of happiness, I know. But her sufferings more than pay for them.’
‘That is why she can write,’ replied Madge, as she cuddled a now pacified and sleeping David to her. ‘All creative artists are the same. It is part of the gift, Jem.’
He nodded. ‘I know that. But I wish we could help Joey to control herself better. I am afraid she may suffer so terribly some day.’

I don't have Genius handy but I seem to recall Nina's more passionate behavior being attributed to her musical gift.

#37: Author: Jools, Location: Sadly Broke

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:57 am
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Jo explains to Mary Lou that Nina is a genius and therefore more likely to be intense in her response to day to day problems. She goes on to say that she only has talent not genius (which is just well or poor Anna would be left to do even more work!)

#38: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:03 pm
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Tiffany wrote:

Are there no isntances of hypochondriac girls, who use the school's health first bedrest policy to get out of maths tests? They were missing an opportunity, if so...

In Malory Towers Gwendoline Lacey does it at least once but it's frowned upon by EB.

I love that scene quoted above - how the matron and PE teacher are smoking! Shocked

Especially Matron enjoying coffee, a novel and a cigarette - sounds quite Bridget Jones-ish. Very Happy

Incidentally, there is such a thing as Broken Heart Syndrome, when the heart stops abruptly for no physical reason (if ER is to be believed anyway).

#39: Author: Liz K, Location: Bedfordshire

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:43 pm
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Mrs Redboots wrote:

Stress, depression, just not wanting to live any more.

I'm of the age when, sadly, the parents of many of my contemporaries are reaching the end of their lives. Almost every time, when one parent dies, the other follows within weeks or months. I know that when one of my parents goes, the other will probably follow within days - they just won't want to be here without the other.

My dad died first of a heart attack and after that Mum just lost interest; I had the feeling she really didn't want to carry on without Dad.

I remember reading a death notice in the Essex County Standard once when a lady died of cancer in St Helena Hospice and her husband died the same day but no reason was given for his death, so he MUST have died of a broken heart.

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