The CBB
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/

Attitudes to different Nationalities
http://www.the-cbb.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5511

Author:  kaitlin101 [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Attitudes to different Nationalities

This is basically about what the girls think of other nationalities and cultures. I started this because i noticed in "The princess of the chalet school" that when they go up to the Zillerthal for Madge's birthday the Robin, Elisaveta and Jo sit down to sing a song. They are deciding and the Robin suggests a Russian song but Elisaveta criticizes it:
From the book:
The children had stopped singing. They could not decide on what to sing next. Elisaveta was all for "Hark, Hark, the Lark"; the Robin wanted to sing "The Red Sarafan," which her mother had sung to her often when she was a baby; Joey inclined to "Das Lindenbaum."
"I don't know, either that or Robin's song," said Elisaveta decisively. "We ought to sing something we all know-and we all know 'The Lark'." "I'm sick of it" grumbled Joey.
"If you won't sing either of the other two"-"I can't!" Elisaveta chipped in-"at least lets sing something we haven't been yelling away at for the last month!" "Do sing 'The Red Sarafan!" implored the Robin. "Me, I will teach him to you."

Elisaveta shook her head. "I don't want to learn it," she said. "Its a horrid Russian song!"
"It was Mamma's song!" said the baby quickly.
"Well anyway, i'm not going to learn Russian! Its a hateful language and they are hateful people!"
Elisaveta was hot and tired, and she felt cross.


So that was it

Author:  Alison H [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

I don't think EBD had much idea about Balkan geography at all - as I said recently in the thread on religion, if Belsornia is (as it usually is) somewhere between Turkey, Greece and Romania then the main religion should be Orthodoxy and feeling would probably have been pro-Russian. Sometimes it moves up towards Slovenia, in which case the fact that the royal family's Catholic is more logical, but that only happens occasionally. Maybe in this case it'd moved out of the Balkans altogether and right up towards Poland or the Baltic States, in which case the anti-Russian feeling'd make more sense.

Or maybe Elisaveta actually meant that Soviet communists were hateful people, rather than that Russians were hateful people, because the Arnsoniras were probably related to the Romanovs and would understandably have been very upset about the murder of so many of their relations ...

Sorry, that's me waffling on my pet subject of Eastern European history again :oops: :lol: !

Author:  Sunglass [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

Alison H wrote:
Or maybe Elisaveta actually meant that Soviet communists were hateful people, rather than that Russians were hateful people, because the Arnsoniras were probably related to the Romanovs and would understandably have been very upset about the murder of so many of their relations ...


That's vaguely how I read it, though I'm too amused by the Incredible Moving Land of Belsornia to take it too seriously. Sounds like something from Dr Who, or that Enid Blyton book about the magic tree that had the Land of Topsy-Turvy and the Land of Goodies come to the top...

Author:  JackieP [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

I thought it was the Communist thing as well, especially as Veta later marries Raphael - who is part of the Miranian Royal Family in School by the River, who certainly do have problems with Communists...

JackieP

Author:  MJKB [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

I read it as communist too, especially as the Russian Revolution was such a recent event.
But on the subject of different nationalities, I think that there was a deterioration in attitudes towards other nationalities as the series progressed. In Tirol days, there was a certain deference observed towards the host nation. In one of the early books, can't remember which - Rivals, perhaps, when one of the new girls refers dismissively to the Austrians as 'foreigners', the prefects remind her, in no uncertain terms, that it is she who is the foreigner. Yet, on a few occasions in the Swiss books, we hear prefects speak about "some of those foreign kids!"
Also, the charm of the Tirol books lay in the descriptions of local customs and traditions. Many of the chief characters are Austrian, German and other nationalities, in the Swiss books, on the other hand, the staff and girls are predominantly British, and none of the major story lines include the continental pupils in any meaningful way.

Author:  Chelsea [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

One thing I noticed when reading the books set during the war, is that EBD is very clear to find distinction between Germans and Nazis (in stark contrast to many of the time) but does not do the same for the Japanese and the Imperial Army, referring to them simply as "the Japs". The Japanese don't come up very often, but I found it interesting.

I suppose that there were no Japanese girls/staff and EBD likely had no exposure to Japanese people, which may have had some effect.

Author:  Sunglass [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

The tiny anti-foreign moment that really shocks me in the later Swiss books - because it isn't about anything, and can have no possible political reasoning - is Margot (thereby a very cosmopolitan, basically good character, and member of the Can Do No Real Wrong Founding Family, thus herself an expat) writing to Emerence. I can't remember which book, apart from it being one of the ones after E has left, or even which character she's discussing, but she says casually that some new girl is 'French, but quite nice'! It's a tiny thing, but in the context of the CS books, which are so sensitive to national diversity, and present 'good' British characters as charmed by foreignness, it does take me aback! Although it occurs to me that the most prominent French character in the Swiss books is pathetic, homesick, eternally weepy Odette Mercier, which looks a bit like EBD herself reverting to the Schoolgirl Simone Stereotype.

(Is there something of a GO stereotype of French girls as weepy? The only other ones I can remember are from Enid Blyton - Claudine in the St Clare's books, and the various French mistresses there and at Malory Towers - and Claudine is way more naughty than emotional... )

Author:  Alison H [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

The logical thing would be to attribute the change to the War, but it doesn't work: there are various "foreign" girls at the school during the war years and in Three Go. It's only a few years after the end of the War that people like Josefa von und zu Wertheim vanish from the story and the school becomes almost exclusively British.

Things were starting to change back to some extent by the end of the series: although we still don't see much of the local people in the Oberland, Jack Lambert's gang is the first really multinational group since the school moved to Switzerland, and "The Crew" (a fairly meaningless group of friends, admittedly, but they were major characters in one or two of the later books!) are also a multinational group.

Author:  JayB [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

I suppose it would take some time for the School to become known in Switzerland and to begin to attract Continental pupils other than those who already had a connection with the School.

And they wouldn't in any case have girls from Eastern Europe - and I dont think there were any German girls, even by the end of the series, were there? And families in those countries which had been under German occupation might not have been in a position to send their daughters to expensive foreign schools until some time after the war.

Author:  Cat C [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

I'm sure there's a remark in one of the Swiss books made by one of the mistresses when discussing a form (the one Margot's in which is performing badly - I know I should be able to pin-point it from that!) along the lines of 'do you realise 14 of the girls in that form are continentals?' implying that the high proportion is a problem - either because of language or academic standards, presumably.

Definite change from Tirol days!

Author:  MHE [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

The remark you are thinking of Cat C is made by Ruth Derwent in 'Leader' to the rest of the staff

". . . Twenty-six essays are something of a chore. Just consider it. There are sixteen continentals in that form and though one or two of them can write nearly as fluently as they speak, the bulk have only to put pen to paper to become completely stilted. As for all the clichés they use, where they get hold of them I can’t imagine.”

Author:  Kate [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

I don't think that's a negative attitude to the different nationalities, necessarily - just a realistic one. People can often speak different languages better than they can write them - as they can go very formal and obsessed with *correct* grammar when they're writing.

Author:  Lesley [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

And as an English Mistress Ruth Derwent would, neccesarily be concerned with the standard of English. With the majority of people in a form not having English as a first language she would have more difficulties. I expect the Mlles were just pleased when they had more French speaking girls!

Author:  Fiona Mc [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

I think there certainly was a definate anti other cultures in the books after they left Austria that wasn't there before it. Dickie Christy in particular goes on continuously how much she hates foreign languages and to the the French and Austrian girls which is extremely tactless. I wonder how any of the Mensch girls (Natalie or Gisel) or Josefa or Maria Ileana felt with the anti German speaking sentiment that pervaded the school in Carola Storms especially as it was Gottfried Mensch who risked his life to save the girls from the Nazi's in Exile. I think EBD must have picked up of the general anti-Europe sentiment from the War and it came through in the books

Author:  kaitlin101 [ Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

ah thank you for the replies:D

Author:  MJKB [ Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Attitudes to different Nationalities

EBD's change in attitude towards other nationalities after Tirol books reminds me of a similar change I noticed at their close. In the early days there was always a formality observed by the rest of the staff in speaking to and about Mrs. Russell. The only member of staff to address her as Madge is MM. In Exile, however, we hear her addressed as Madge by Gisela's husband first of all, and then, I think, by Bill. From then on relations were far more informal between the school's founder and her staff. Apologies for digression btw. It just intrigued me abit!

All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/