The CBB -> Anything Else

#1: Triplets Author: LizBLocation: Oxon, England PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:04 pm

From an article on the BBC news site

Triplets develop more slowly than single babies and twins, a study says.

Researchers analysed the cognitive development of 23 sets of triplets, 23 sets of twins and 23 singletons.

The team from Bar Ilan University in Israel found by the end of the first year triplets showed poorer development in words, gestures and basic play.

So maybe they should have been older than the rest of the classmates!

Mother's also tended to engage less and show less warmth to the triplet that was weakest at birth.

This child showed the least cognitive development, which includes perception, reasoning and creativity, than their siblings, according to the study.

And does having less maternal attention as a baby explain why Margot turned out to be the 'bad' one?



#2:  Author: JackieJLocation: Kingston upon Hull PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:08 pm

*Admits she was coming over here to post the exact same thing*

Well, Liz has already said it, so I'll just say hear hear.



#3:  Author: JoeyLocation: Cambridge PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:41 pm

Ah yes, but the Trips are Joey's Children (with capital letters!) They are direct decendants of the First Pupil at the Chalet School. Surely that counts for more than any mere medical research? Research, moreover, that was not carried out by the doctors at the Sanatorium?


#4:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:38 pm

Ooh, sarky, Joey.

I think the fact that they were the Maynard triplets, and let's not forget that they were the only triplets ever born in this world, that ensured that they were well ahead of all the other pupils.


#5:  Author: AlexLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:19 pm

I'm sure it's all due to the attention lavished on them by their loving mother (when she wasn't busy writing literary masterpieces).


#6:  Author: patmacLocation: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:23 pm

Alex wrote:
I'm sure it's all due to the attention lavished on them by their loving mother (when she wasn't busy writing literary masterpieces).

And Anna! that makes 2 mothers to 3 children so they should be at least a little better off than twins.


#7:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:16 pm

I've actually always thought it could be explained very well by the languages thing - as the Triplets spoke French fluently and German quite well also, that would never be the barrier that it was for the others. So it would be quite natural that they would progress more quickly up the school - they would have grasped topics more easily.


#8:  Author: jenniferLocation: Sunny California PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:23 pm

Don't forget the maturing effects of a year (or two) in Canada! Before they left for Canada, they were in the right forms for their age, but when they come back, they've jumped several forms in a year, after having a year of classes entirely in French!

Of course, after jumping though forms until they're Seniors at age 12, they then have an extra year in Inter V until they're old enough to go to Vb, and spend three years in sixth form, so perhaps it caught up with them.


#9:  Author: LesleyLocation: Rochester, Kent PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:59 pm

So exactly how does living in Canada mature you? Any Canadians out there? Chelsea? Shander? Laughing


#10:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:04 pm

I always wanted to know the answer to that one as well, Lesley.


#11:  Author: Guest PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:48 pm

Lesley wrote:
So exactly how does living in Canada mature you? Any Canadians out there? Chelsea? Shander? Laughing

I'm Canadian and lived in Toronto for six years and it baffles me. The only thing I can think of is essentially a class issue. The Manyards/Bettanys were coming from a very sheltered segment of their society - their own holiday houses, multiple live in servants, sending the kids to boarding school, not really mixing with the local kids. The aristocratic tradition is not nearly as strong historically in Canada, and tends to be more purely an economic rather than social class. If they went to Canada, and were mixing with the Canadian doctors and their families, it would be different than what they were used to. You could possibly add in the Urban/Rural contrast as well. The trips always lived in fairly small towns, which in someways give more freedom that a city, but in other ways expose you to a larger variety of experiences.

Of course, anyone who can refer to winters in Toronto as a 'dry cold' with a straight face has either never been there, or grew up on the bottom of a lake. There was also a bit about renting a house from a McGill professor when they were living in Toronto.


#12:  Author: DawnLocation: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:48 pm

re the attention thing - there were always plenty of other people around to give them attention. Also wonders how much the 4 hourly routine that just about all babies were subjected to at that time, levelled the playing field - after all no babies seemed to get much playing with/attention under that routine!

We found that our twins were more outgoing than their big sis, purely because we used to hand them out to friends/family for cuddles/outings etc (purely to make our lives easier Embarassed) and they became very confident with other adults because of this.


#13:  Author: ChelseaLocation: Your Imagination PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:19 am

Lesley wrote:
So exactly how does living in Canada mature you? Any Canadians out there? Chelsea? Shander? Laughing

What, you don't find me the most mature member of the board (Pogo stop laughing). Laughing

Frankly, I always wondered about that myself. That and the fact that our winters are definately not dry! I admit that it might not rain all that much (from December to Feb), but only because it is too darn cold! It is still rather humid.

I must go tuck Pogo in for his nap

*Chelsea the oh so mature one*


#14:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:20 am

EBD seems to have several ideas about the effects of Toronto (or Canada in general) on children.
1. It’s healthy.
2. It has good schools, especially bringing on students’ French.
3. Children grow up faster in the senses that they
a. become “fearfully independent” compared to English children.
b. develop a “surface sophistication,” as in Margot’s case.
I think EBD associates both a & b with increased exposure to the adult world, in both the pejorative and responsible senses.

As for the dry cold – If EBD did visit, perhaps it was during a snowy period. In general, snow would be considered drier than cold horrid November rain, and it’s not just my joints that think so. Many Canadian plants (e.g. conifers) have a lot of the same adaptations as desert plants, to conserve water during the effective drought of winter. Frozen water is unavailable water.

But I can’t think of any way to make the Montreal (McGill)-Toronto commute feasible.

One last comment, on the scientific study: Keep in mind that it is impossible to extrapolate the reported means & medians to individuals. For example, the sorry average on the last exam I gave was 65%, but individual scores ranged from 96% to 25%.


#15:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:29 am

If you read "Back Home" by Michelle Magorian (sp?) (which is a GREAT book) - it seems to show that America (US and Canada) did have a different way of bringing up children at the time. Rusty in that book comes home from America with a very different outlook on life - she listens to Sinatra records and is interested in clothes and knows about sex and so on, while her old friends are still "little girls" who only think about school. the same sort of thing seems to occur in the War Guests trilogy. So in that way - at the time - it could have added a sort of maturity to the girls. Not to the same extent, of course, as they were still living with their parents but the influence would rub off in school.
So possibly the triplets did come home more sophisticated. Although I can't say I ever noticed it, it was just that we were told about it. Smile

(I'm very defensive of EBD today!!!)


#16:  Author: ChelseaLocation: Your Imagination PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:06 am

Kate wrote:
the same sort of thing seems to occur in the War Guests trilogy.

Hmm...I love those books, but was actually going to use it as an example countering EBD. Norah is no younger acting than Paige and the girls at her school (though she is less annoying!)


#17:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:04 am

lol Chelsea!

I was just thinking of the second book in particular with the crush on Andrew and the party and writing to the soldier boys... can't imagine that in England with girls of that age - they're more protected. It's not real maturity, but it is a kind of sophistication.


#18:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:59 pm

The really puzzling thing about all this sophistication to me, is that the triplets were boarders at a convent school, so please explain all the exposure to adult, mature, sophisticated behaviour. During the holidays they were at home with their parents, and as Jo had several children by then, and had two more babies out there, I bet the triplets were fairly heavily involved in childcare.

Someone please explain!


#19:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:22 pm

I'd have thought some of Margot's sophistication would come from the fact that, for once, she would actually have been one of the older girls there, at least until the other two and Sybil arrived. She might have been more likely to be asked to take on the sorts of jobs that Len usually did, and also, being on her own, Madge might have kept her and Josette with her more than usual.



#20:  Author: Lisa_TLocation: Belfast PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:39 pm

I thought the trips only started boarding when the two Fs were born? Actually, I wonder how they coped- being just like everyone else instead of being 'special'? Would the nuns have let Joey have them any old time she wanted them? I suppose if Robin was there- but if so she would probably have been in her novitiate and possibly not allowed a great deal of contact with family.


#21:  Author: patmacLocation: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:33 am

I think it is more likely that EBD thought that travel 'broadened the mind'. Canada seemed a long way from England then and very few people went there and came back again. Most people emigrated if they went at all. She probably had no idea what Canada was like and lumped it in with USA (but colder) as a place where people were all sophisticated and 'fast'. After all the Americans had nylon stockings and chewing gum Shocked


#22:  Author: BelLocation: Cambridge PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 10:08 pm

Lisa_T wrote:
I suppose if Robin was there- but if so she would probably have been in her novitiate and possibly not allowed a great deal of contact with family.

Would Robin have been in her novitiate then? I thought she didn't enter until the Maynards moved to Switzerland, but I don't really know about convent procedure.


#23:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 10:50 pm

I think you are right, Bel...


#24:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:56 am

Yes your are right. Robin is at Plas Gwyn to help Jo pack up and leaves for Canada just before Jo and Co go to Switzerland. There is a conversation between her and Jo that I cannot remember off hand but her novitiate is either brought forward or defferred to allow for this.

Last edited by Susan on Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total


#25:  Author: Lisa_TLocation: Belfast PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:54 am

yes you're all right, i remember now. I was confused cos i was remembering when the stsff were told at the beginning of shocks


#26:  Author: francesnLocation: away with the faeries PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:40 pm

Robin only goes to Canada when Joey sets of on her mammoth trek accros Europe to Switzerland. She stays with someone until she can be accepted at the convent as a postulant....I think she's supposed to enter on the Feast of the Annunciation - someone please correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I remember it.

Back to the Trips.....I think they were so mature and ahead of themselves because they were the eldest of SUCH a long family and thus weren't really allowed to be babies for so long. They were also supposed to all be really bright - Len was supposedly really studious and that would have helped push her ahead. What I could never figure out is that Con invariably went with her although Margot was (so it seems to me) the brightest one of the lot and "can run circles around the other two when she puts her mind to it". Then there's the languages thing...bilingual (or in this case trilingual) babies show a slower initial development of speech...and the poor kids in this case must have been really confused what with their parents and most of the rest of the family jumping from English to French to German and back....but it would have stood them in good stead for going to school and not having to waste the brainpower thinking in other languages just like Kate points out!!! So they could quite feasibly have just leapt up the school ladder to become Seniors at the age of 12......although one has to wonder about the effects on their social and emotional development given that they were with girls a good 2 or 3 years older than them, and in terms of teenagers that is a BIG gap. Having jumped a year at school myself, never mind 3, I found it more difficult to connect socially - but that had the flip side of making sure that I did work twice as hard rather than waste time with things like friends. * sobs at deprived childhood*

I never understood the Canada thing - I just kind of accepted it...although it didn't seem to have that "maturing" effect on anyone else. Maybe it only affects triplets? Confused


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