Summerhill School
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#1: Summerhill School Author: ChangnoiLocation: New Mexico, USA PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:33 am


I just wrote a post briefly referencing a conversation my dad and I had had about children's books that establish a school that is supposed to be, or is similar to, Summerhill. We discussed such schools as Experiment House, where Eustace goes in the Narnia series, and Whyteleafe School, where the Naughtiest Girl goes in the Enid Blyton series. I will also tentatively include the school "on the estate" that Rusty plans to go to at the end of Coming Home (Michelle Magorian).

So, having just looked up Summerhill briefly on Wikipedia, I'm coming back to the issue. Was any part of the CS based on Summerhill, do you think? Obviously, lessons at the CS were compulsory, which is a major difference to Summerhill. However, the largely self-governing system of the CS, as well as its commitment to democracy and equality, seems to point back to Summerhill. Certainly the CS girls have more freedom in self-government than do girls at the other school Michelle Magorian writes about or in the Enid Blyton books.

But then again, we do have the disastrous CS at Tanswick, where there is free discipline, and pupils learn what they like when they like. This certainly seems like part of Summerhill. Is EBD intentionally condemning certain aspects of Summerhill while embracing others?

Did EBD even know about Summerhill? What are some other similarities/differences between CS and Summerhill?


Chang

 


#2:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:54 am


Personally, I don't think the CS was self-governing. In comparison to a school like Whyteleaf, the staff always had an idea of what was going on, and if not directly, then through the prefects who are seen as representatives of the Head. The Head Boy and Head Girl at Whyteleaf seem almost like they control certain areas of the school that are not touched on by staff, such as with the garden. In the CS, plans for gardens must be approved by the Head or the gardening mistress.

'Freedom' in the CS is more related to independence than self-discipline (and I do think these are different things). During the CS girls' free time, they are not permitted to work except at the gardens or for things for the Sales, which are by no means the same thing as getting on with a bit of prep or your music practice (as can be seen in Genius). Summerville sounds like the children are given a list of what has to be done and then have all day and night in which to do it if they choose.

The free education idea certainly is condemned by EBD in her creation of Tanswick and it is possible that, if she knew of Summerville, she was including it in her opinions.

 


#3:  Author: RóisínLocation: Galway, Éire PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:48 am


Sorry but what's Summerville? I don't recognise the reference... Embarassed

 


#4:  Author: jaceyLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:14 am


Summerhill was a school founded by AS Neill in ?1921. Somewhere in England, still on the go. He believed in freedom for children, the school was run as a democracy and the children had equal rights with teachers. I read a fascinating book on Neill and his school years ago, but sadly it seems to mostly have fallen through the gaps in my swiss cheese brain Laughing

 


#5:  Author: RóisínLocation: Galway, Éire PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:33 am


jacey wrote:
Summerhill was a school founded by AS Neill in ?1921. Somewhere in England, still on the go. He believed in freedom for children, the school was run as a democracy and the children had equal rights with teachers. I read a fascinating book on Neill and his school years ago, but sadly it seems to mostly have fallen through the gaps in my swiss cheese brain Laughing


Ah, thank you. I shall go ahead and google now and educate myself Very Happy

 


#6:  Author: ChangnoiLocation: New Mexico, USA PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:04 pm


Googling is FASCINATING.

In summary--Neill believed that children would do best when they learned because they were interested, not because parents or teachers wanted them to learn certain things, which he felt was 'coercion'. So lessons were not compulsory. He also wanted children to self-govern, as mentioned.

Summerhill started in Germany but moved to Suffolk. It's still going on more or less the same principles, and Ofsted inspected it 9 times over the course of 1999. In 2000, there was some kind of court battle over Summerhill's right to have non-compulsory classes; they won.

But historically, it was a huge experiment. It was reproduced a lot in fiction, I think, and embraced by some authors--Enid Blyton with Whyteleafe School, and roundly condemned by others--C.S. Lewis with his scathing portrayal of Experiment House in Dawn Treader and Silver Chair.

Chang

 


#7:  Author: Carolyn PLocation: Lancaster, England PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:54 pm


I have the book A S Neill wrote about Summerhill and was just thinking about rereading it the other day. How odd that this should come up.

Certainly from what I can remember I doubt that any aspects of the CS were based on Summerhill and it is more likely that the school at Tanswick was based on some of it's ideas. Changnoi's summary from google is more or less what I recall. No compulsory lessons, children equal wiwthh adults and largely self governing. No rules and co-ed as well. Neill had very liberal views on sex and on religion that would not have won approval from EBD.

As a teacher and running a school, I would expect EBD to know of Summerhill and Neill, it would be part of keeping up to date with educational methods and I presume, although don't know that it would be discussed in professional publications etc.

If anyone is interested I can scan through the book quickly and give more information on Neill and Summerhill and if anyone has specific questions I seem to recall the book has his answers to various questions that were raised by people.

 


#8:  Author: MissPrintLocation: Edinburgh PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:39 pm


The children of some family friends went there. The parents were quite unusual, rather bohemain, and not the sort of people I'd have expected my very conservative parents to know, but the chap had been Dad's best friend at school, and even the world's weirdest wife couldn't change that. Anyway, one of the kids went on to do very well in international finance in the far east, but the other one didn't make anything of her educational opportunities and tends to pick most unsuitable partners who take advantage of her good nature. The boy didn't like the school, and I think he went somewhere else fairly quickly.

There was a documentary on telly about the place a few years ago. It seemed to me that only extrovert personalities would thrive, and delicate flowers would not survive. He who shouted loudest was heard most, and that's no way to run a school.

 


#9:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:38 am


And if you looked very carefully beneath the surface, there wasn't as much freedom as A S Neill liked to say.

 


#10:  Author: patmacLocation: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:55 am


I always thought the theory sounded great but Utopias just don't work. Pity, really.

 


#11:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:22 am


I found the original Utopia, by Sir Thomas More, was rather grim and bleak, and I certainly couldn't have been happy living in it.

I agree with Patmac, theories are great, reality is something else.

 


#12:  Author: ChangnoiLocation: New Mexico, USA PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:54 pm


Well, you can certainly see the "Utopias don't work" theory in the opening bits of Dawn Treader and Silver Chair. Eustace is ridiculed by C.S. Lewis because his parents are teetotalers and freethinkers and because he calls them by their first names. Then in Silver Chair, there's a comment made that, if you are a bully at Experiment House, instead of being punished, you become rather more of a favorite of a the head, who wants to understand you and be your friend. Lewis also makes some deprecating comments on girls at Experiment House being treated the same as boys and called by their surnames.

But, I suppose, some of EBD's Chalet School principles didn't seem to hold up too well in her own school that she ran. So, Utopias definitely rarely work, whether they're full of grand ideas like Summerhill or just slight variations from the norm, like in CS.

Chang

 


#13:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:34 pm


Jennie wrote:
I found the original Utopia, by Sir Thomas More, was rather grim and bleak, and I certainly couldn't have been happy living in it.



I'm glad someone else thinks that! I remember my university lecturer going mad that I'd dared to criticise Sir Thomas More!

This is a bit off the point, but wasn't there a statue of Thomas More at the Chalet School at one point? Presumably EBD was a big fan of his seeing as she named her own school after his daughter.

It always seemed a bit odd to me that so much was left to the prefects at the Chalet School, but then you never felt that the Heads weren't in control overall.

 


#14:  Author: ChangnoiLocation: New Mexico, USA PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:10 pm


I don't remember a statue of More, but I remember that they do a play about his daughter. Or maybe that's in one of the fill-ins.

I very much doubt that the prefect-run system of the CS could ever work in the real world. Miss Annersley's supreme wisdom acts to make sure that no girl who is inappropriate--cruel, bullying, deceitful--ever gets appointed to prefect status. If one did, then, with the amount of control she is given, she could truly make life unbearable for the little ones--bring the "fagging" idea into the CS, cane the middles, etc. I know that one of the prefects in Barbara is noted for being somewhat domineering and inclined to get the wrong ideas about people, but that part of her character is not allowed by EBD to show to any extent.

Chang

 


#15:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:19 pm


Someone hides Cecily Holds the Fort behind the statue of More in United.

 




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