Prenatal Medicine in the CS World
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#1: Prenatal Medicine in the CS World Author: ChangnoiLocation: in transit, midwest USA PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:14 pm
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OK, I know EBD probably wasn't too knowledgable about prenatal medicine, never having had a child and apparently--judging by people's looks--being fairly ignorant of genetics and other aspects of biology, but I've been wondering about some of the multiple births.

The Triplets. Were they really unpredicted? At no point in Joey's pregnancy did anyone say, "My, you're big for X weeks" or "Strange, your baby seems to be kicking you in three places at once." Did they have some way of testing fetal heartbeat? Could they not have heard three heartbeats, had they wanted to do so?

Because, in Switzlerland, 15 (or so) years later (Trials, before the birth of Geoff and Phil), Joey tells people that she and Jack are hoping for twins again. This, I suppose, could just mean that she and Jack are hoping for twins again, but I've always thought it meant that they heard two heartbeats or whatever and were hoping that both babies would be born alive and healthy. Similarly, before Biddy O'Ryan Courvoisier leaves school for good, some member of the staff says that she's hoping for twins, but that she will be happy with whatever. Again, since she does indeed have twins, I interpret it that she's had some sign that she has twins already.

I suppose the question is, Was there generally any medical indication that women would have multiple births? Did it just not exist in Guernsey at the time the triplets were born? If the technology did not exist at all, did Joey and Biddy get twins just by hoping for them? Does this method really work?

I'm sorry my syntax is so garbled this morning; there has not yet been caffeine.

Chang

#2:  Author: Róisín PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:27 pm
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Short answer: I have no idea Laughing
Long answer: I would presume that they did indeed know enough to recognise a larger bump/ multiple heartbeats/ multiple kickings. And they did know that twins were hereditary, because I'm just reading Reunion and Mollie M. says so.

#3:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 2:45 pm
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When my granny had her twins (in 1956) she didn't know she was having them. Her doctor suspected she might be carrying two babies, but he didn't tell her. She ended up having them at home (she would have gone to hospital if she knew) and getting rather a shock. She only had a crib and clothes for one baby so one of them slept in a drawer for a week...

#4:  Author: LulieLocation: Middlesbrough PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:09 pm
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I know people who, in the days before u/s scans had twins without knowing they were having two. The babies weren't particularly large at birth, so it was probably just assumed that it was one large baby, until Twin 2 decided to arrive!! Depending on how the babies are lying, more than one heartbeat my not be picked up with a heartbeat thingie. *shows woeful ignorance of medical terminology*

I know that the doctors thought my sister was twins, because they thought they could hear two heartbeats. I was one of the few babies who was scanned when Mum was pregnant with me in the 1970s, so it's only fairly recently that regular scans were a matter of course.

#5:  Author: FatimaLocation: Sunny Qatar PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:20 pm
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I was referred for a scan when I first went to the doctor, at about three months pregnant. They felt my stomach and decided that it felt too big for the dates I had given them and that they should find out why. It was twins, hence the size! If they could tell that by touch, you'd have thought an experienced doctor would have noticed something with Jo, especially when she was having triplets!

#6:  Author: AlexLocation: Cambs, UK PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:41 pm
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My housemate has an identical twin. They were born in 1985, and their parents were living in Thailand at the time. Their mother didn't know she was having twins until a month before they were born when she came back to the UK because she couldn't have an ultrasound. I know that you can hear a baby's heartbeat with a stethoscope but I'd imagine it's pretty difficult to distinguish more than one.

#7:  Author: EmilyLocation: Land of White Coats and Stethoscopes. PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 6:32 pm
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You can get foetal stethoscopes but apparently they're really hard to use and not very effective. A friend of mine is a twin, and their mum didn't know until they were born, and this was only 20 years ago (Al's twin is at Cambridge actually, not the same pair is it...?), so maybe this kind of thing did happen a lot in Joey's time.

#8:  Author: VikkiLocation: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:03 pm
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When mum was pregnant with me they thought I might be twins, because she had a big bump, and there were twins on both sides of the family, but it turned out that there was just lots of amniotic fluid (shame, I'd have liked a twin...... Wink )

#9:  Author: Cryst PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:03 pm
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My aunt had twins in 1953 and didn't know in advance.

#10:  Author: ChangnoiLocation: in transit, midwest USA PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:50 pm
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So--consensus here seems to be, "It's entirely plausible that no one would know."

Which means that Joey and Biddy are either a) psychic or b) just get what they ask for as far as twins are concerned. Does anyone have any anecdotal/scientific insights as to whether the "hoping-for-and-getting-twins" method also works in real life?

Not "busy", not particularly wanting twins, just interested,

Chang

#11:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:11 pm
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Well, fraternal twins are hereditary (often skipping a generation) so if you have aunts or uncles who are twins (like me Shocked)you are more likely than the average to have them yourself. So maybe Joey knew that her family were prone to twins.

Or maybe, although she didn't know about the trips, she did know about Phil and Geoff. Possible enough, considering developments in medicine - and the fact that she had so many children - could mean she was under more medical supervision than before.

#12:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:16 pm
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With the heartbeats you could pick up seperate heartbeats with a Pinard, but really you'd be suspecting it before using two (and to be accurate you need two people doing it - one tapping out the first twins heartbeat and the other listening in to e second and be sure that they are different beats - much easier with with a sonicaid.

What I took it as being is they worked out it was a multiple pregnancy as she would have been larger (they may not have told Jo as she was so 'delicate') but thought she was carrying twins not triplets. On palpation it can be difficult to work out - you diagnose twins by finding 3 fetal poles (either bums or heads), most people don't feel four with twins and you have to be sure that you are feeling seperate ones and not the same one moving about - if one blocks over the front, you could easily miss one behind.

Biddy and Jo, I think 'knew' or suspected they were having twins, but back when EBD was younger if a twin was stillborn they probably wouldn't have mentioned that it was twins to anyone, they would have just had the one live baby - there are many cases of people not knowing they were twins, till they realised thats what the time on the birth certificate meant

#13:  Author: DawnLocation: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:30 pm
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Changnoi wrote:


Does anyone have any anecdotal/scientific insights as to whether the "hoping-for-and-getting-twins" method also works in real life?

Chang


We absolutely definitely did not in a million years ever want twins

and we got twins Rolling Eyes


Friends of ours born in the late 60's were twins (and they're not the first in the family either) and no one knew till after the first was born - and it was a home birth

I did actually suspect I might be having twins (partly because our dear neighbour wished it on me Rolling Eyes , partly because the people in the house before us did Shocked) , but really because I was absolutely massive. By 12 weeks I was very visibly pregnant and by 5 months even the medical profession thought I was due when they just looked at me.

The funniest time was when the consultant got the very junior doctor to palpitate my tummy and tell him what he thought. The poor guy was very nervous and eventually quavered "well....it's a very big baby" - queue lots of laughter from us and then we told him there were 2 in there.

Apart from fertility treatment, you are most likely to have twins if you conceive easily and we were also told the more children you have and the older you are, the more likely you are to have them.
A friend rang me up when Jess was about 3 and the boys were about a year old to tell me she'd had a great dream the night before. Turned out she'd dreamt we went on to have triplets Shocked

#14:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:33 pm
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Antenatal care was far more hit and miss in those days. It was common to go to the doctor's for confirmation of your pregnancy, and post-war/welfare state, to get your milk token and things for free prescriptions and dental care, but not to visit the doctor unless you were ill, or having some alarming symptoms. You might have to see a doctor if you were to go into hospital to have your baby, but it was far more common to see more of a midwife, even at the hospital.

#15:  Author: PatLocation: Doncaster PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:00 pm
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With the triplets, athough Jack was away with hias regiment when they were born, you'd think Jem would have noticed that Jo was a little big and said something? Also, weren't they friends with the Chesters, as well as Peter being their doctor?

#16:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:09 pm
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My dad and his twin sister were born in 1945, and my grandma had no idea she was having two babies rather than one until they arrived! My grandad was away in the Army at the time and got a right shock when he got the message telling him!

#17:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:16 pm
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The twins in our family (1959) were definitely a shock, particularly as they put us over the limit at a time when landlords were allowed to evict people who had too many children.

#18:  Author: GremblesLocation: Norwich PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 7:58 am
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Perhaps by the time Phil and Geoff came along Joey could feel that it was twins rather than a singleton - I guess having had both by this point she would know.
Just my guess though as twins definitly don't seem to run in our family, not even back 200 years as far as mum can tell with her family research.

#19:  Author: Rosy-JessLocation: Gloucestershire-London-Aberystwyth PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:51 pm
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They must have guessed she was expecting at least twins. I mean, if Jo was really as slender as she is made out to have been, she would have shown really quickly - and even I, non-medical professional, can glance at someone who is heavily pregnant with multiples, and hazard a guess that there might be more than one in there. Surely they would have been able to see?

#20:  Author: nikkieLocation: Cumbria PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 8:35 pm
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Midwifes nowadays seem to be able to tell a lot by 'feeling' the bump, did this not happen as much then?

#21:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 9:20 pm
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Prior to WW2 I don't think that many people did routine antenatal care- and two people can so easily disagree with palpations, it's quite tricky at times (though I had one the other day - I said breech, consultant said cephalic, I was right Laughing ), some people do seem HUGE and yet it's only one normal size baby in there, I know early on (prior to 20 weeks) I've asked the woman if she's had a scan and it's showen only one as she seems bigger

#22:  Author: Sarah_LLocation: Leeds PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 9:52 pm
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There's a woman at my work whose baby is due in about three weeks and she is enormous. The biggest bump I've seen. It's only one baby though. There's another woman who is due about the same time and her bump is much more compact.

#23:  Author: JoolsLocation: Sadly Broke PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 8:57 am
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My mother had twins in1971, and although she was huge she had bee assured by her GP that there was only one baby in there, so you can imagine the shock when she produced 2! Apparently one was behind the other which is why he remained undetected for the entire pregnancy. Having aready had two brothers I wasn't any too thrilled when 2 more turned up on my birthday Laughing

#24:  Author: KatLocation: Abertawe PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 6:48 pm
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When I did my community placement in '04, I was invited by the midwife I was working with to check the heartbeat of a baby (can't remember how many months gone the mum-to-be was sorry!). I had a bit of trouble, finally deciding that the baby must have some kind of heart trouble. Midwife spotted my slightly panicked look and asked what was wrong... turns out it was twins, which had completely thrown me!

Good job I wasn't a trainee midwife...!

#25:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 6:51 pm
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Lol, they always do that if they have a student and a woman with twins, don't tell you and leave you to be completely confused

#26:  Author: KatLocation: Abertawe PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 6:58 pm
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Meanies! I was quite scared that we were going to have to tell this poor woman that her baby had a heart problem!

So glad it was twins - though she didn't seem quite so happy! Laughing

#27:  Author: LizBLocation: Oxon, England PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 7:40 pm
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Kat wrote:
So glad it was twins - though she didn't seem quite so happy! Laughing


My mum was told at one point in her second pregnancy that she might be having twins. My brother had been awful that day and apparently when my dad got home she cried all over him "I can't cope with one more, let alone two!"

It wasn't twins, but she did go on to have a few more children *g*

#28:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:52 pm
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Dawn wrote:

Apart from fertility treatment, you are most likely to have twins if you conceive easily and we were also told the more children you have and the older you are, the more likely you are to have them.


That's weird, cos my mum had five kids and had the last one when she was in her forties. Her mum was a twin and my dad has twin sisters. But we never got any twins! Sad

I think Joey's 'surprise' was supposed to be a surpries for the readers so EBD couldn't give it away. Does it actually say that Peter Chester didn't know it would be triplets or at least a mulitple birth? Maybe everyone just thought she was having twins?

#29:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:27 pm
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Loryat wrote:
Dawn wrote:

Apart from fertility treatment, you are most likely to have twins if you conceive easily and we were also told the more children you have and the older you are, the more likely you are to have them.


That's weird, cos my mum had five kids and had the last one when she was in her forties. Her mum was a twin and my dad has twin sisters. But we never got any twins! Sad

I've often heard that twins skip a generation. So maybe you'll have twins!

#30:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 8:27 pm
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Well I'd like to! So fingers crossed.

#31:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 9:56 pm
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I'm mentally preparing myself for twins, as we've worked outthere are twins in every second generation of my family going back something like 7 or 8 generations!

#32:  Author: Róisín PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:46 pm
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My SLOCs father is a twin Confused

#33:  Author: EilidhLocation: Macclesfield PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:47 pm
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My SLOCs mum is. None on my side though.

#34:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:54 pm
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Róisín wrote:
My SLOCs father is a twin Confused


Nah, you're okay. Fraternal twins arrive due to the mother-to-be producing two eggs in one go. The father's side has very little to do with it. Your SLOC's sisters may have twins though!

#35:  Author: Róisín PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:05 pm
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Oh boo, that's just unfair! Laughing

#36:  Author: DawnLocation: Leeds, West Yorks PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:00 pm
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Róisín wrote:
Oh boo, that's just unfair! Laughing


Anytime you want to practice twin parenting I can send over Chris and Matty - admittedly they're now 15, but that doesn't mean it's easier than when they were babies - just different Laughing

#37:  Author: FatimaLocation: Sunny Qatar PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:03 pm
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My twins are four years old - far more suitable for practicing on! Laughing

#38:  Author: Róisín PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:59 pm
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*hides* Shocked

#39:  Author: FatimaLocation: Sunny Qatar PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:03 pm
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Yes, there are times I feel like doing that, too!

#40:  Author: ChairLocation: Rochester, Kent PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:33 pm
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Reading the last few comments has made me really giggle. This is how I would imagine someone who was looking after Becky's twins while she's not there for above reasons:

Twins: Where has our Mum been for the last few days?

Someone: She felt like hiding for a few days!

#41:  Author: Vashti PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:36 am
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This is a bit late, but my grandmother didn't know she was having twins in the early 50s when she gave birth to my aunts - I know this because she wrote up the story and I have her manuscript.

I may put it on my webpage, in fact. It's interesting as an early birth story.

#42:  Author: Helen PLocation: Crewe, Cheshire PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:34 pm
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If you do put it on your page, Vashti, please share the link with us, I'm sure I'm not the only person who would really love to read that. Very Happy



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