Matron vs Nurse
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#1: Matron vs Nurse Author: TanLocation: London via Newcastle Australia PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:46 pm
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I was thinking about this whilst cooking dinner - why is Matron in charge of all the health issues in the school? What would her background or training have been? Why would this be more desirable than a nurse? And are the various nurses referred to throughout the series permanent members of staff?

Very curious!

#2:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:58 pm
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I've always assumed Matey was a trained nurse, from the fact that she's always sent for when there's illness or an accident, makes the first diagnosis when there's an infectious illness around, and assists Jem or Jack in giving treatment. I like to think of her having got her training and experience in the War. That would be where she learned to hide her emotions under that air of brisk efficiency.

When she joined the school back in Tyrol, I don't think there was a nurse as well, was there, so her responsibilities would have covered general health, nursing and housekeeping. Then as the school got bigger, other matrons and a nurse were added to share the work, with Matey still in overall charge.

I assume Nurse is a fulltime member of staff from the fact that she's always there when needed. I can only think the poor woman must have led a very lonely and boring life stuck away in San - never joining the staff in the staffroom or for meals, never being addressed by her name, sometimes going a whole term without any patients that we hear about.

#3:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:03 pm
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I always assumed Matey was a bona fide nurse because of the angel's wing cap, but possibly I have been over-influenced by the capping ceremonies in Cherry Ames, Sue Barton, A Cap for Kathy, etc.

#4:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:05 pm
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It says at some point that Matey is a fully trained nurse, and that the others also have nurse's training.

Maybe 'Nurse' deals with the students who are already sick, working mainly in the school infirmary. With the school policy of keeping the girls on strict bedrest for everythings from exhaustion and bad behaviour on up, they'd have someone in there most of the time, not to mention things like colds and flu and sprained ankles.

The matrons seem to interact with the healthy students a lot more on a day to day basis, and oversee household matters and behaviour and diet and so on as well, and spot the students who aren't feeling well.

#5:  Author: MelLocation: UP NORTH PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:16 pm
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I always think of both Matey and Nurse as qualified nurses, but when there are all the House Matrons as well, I wonder how they filled their time.

#6:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:31 pm
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I think the idea was for each Matron to have responsibility for their own House - Matron Besly was meant to be in charge of St Clare's in New House and there's a mention later on of someone (could've been Len) being asked why they hadn't reported the fact they were feeling ill to their own house matron, but "the" Matron seems to be the only one we see in action! I assume she was only in charge of one House, so maybe no-one ever got ill in any of the others Laughing !

I feel really sorry for Nurse - she doesn't even seem to have a name, either a first name or a surname, nor any friends! She only features on a few occasions and even then she doesn't do much! The roles do seem very confused - Matron apparently deals with all medical matters, as well as dealing with housekeeping matters where her job seems to overlap with the domestic staff's.

It says in Bride that Nurse has been with the School since Tyrol days, and presumably she is the same Nurse who is with the school in Switzerland, but she gets overlooked most of the time.

Please will someone write a drabble about poor Nurse - I feel very sorry for her now!

#7:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:15 am
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The first mention of a nurse being permanently associated with the school appears to be in New House, where, in the new San, there is a room set aside for a nurse (although this could, of course, have been a matron's room).

By the way, the matrons in Jo Returns all wear nurse's uniforms. This quote explains their training:

Quote:
‘Matey’ was a fully-trained nurse, and her young colleague at St Agnes’, Matron Gould, had had three years’ training in a big London hospital. Little Mrs Venables had had five children of her own, and, before the unfortunate marriage which had taken her out to Queensland, had been a nurse in a big sanatorium in England, though she was not as fully trained as Matron Lloyd, who was head of that side. Besides these three, there was Nurse, who had charge of the School sanatorium which formed part of St Clare’s.


So we have Nurse in addition to the matrons now. Nurse sits with Miss Stewart, who is ill with laryngitis. Nurse is also the person who calls Dr Jem in when several children come out in spots in New.

#8:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:02 am
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If you think about it, Matey's role (and her level of training) is quite unusual. In real boarding schools, Nurse would have been responsible for the medical side, and Matrons had mainly domestic and pastoral duties. Or at least, that's my understanding.

Our Matey appears to do some of both - we see her sorting laundry and looking after the linen cupboard, but also taking a lead in medical emergencies (until a doctor arrived, anyway Wink ).

A website I just found, BTW, has this to say about the role of School Matron, which shows how atypical Matey is:

Quote:
School matrons are usually based in boarding schools. The job does not usually involve any medical work or teaching; they are responsible for the health and well-being of the pupils and the smooth running of the domestic side of school life.

The work varies according to the age of the pupils, but it involves working closely with the house mistress/master who has overall responsibility for the care of boarding pupils out of school hours.

The work would normally include all or most of the following:

Responsibility for pupils’ health:
- being aware of their individual health problems
- looking after pupils with minor illnesses and giving out non-prescription medicines
- taking pupils to medical and dental appointments and calling for emergency treatment if necessary
- keeping pupils’ records up to date.

Personal Care:
- helping pupils settle in to school life by providing a sympathetic ear and support
- working with members of staff to help pupils enjoy school life and to achieve their potential
- taking responsibility with other house staff for supervising pupils, making sure they are clean and well behaved when they are not in school
- keeping pupils' families informed about pupils’ health and well-being.

Domestic:
- ensuring pupils have clean clothes, which are repaired and replaced when necessary
- supervising cleaning and domestic staff
- ordering cleaning, domestic and medical supplies
- carrying out an inventory of fixtures and fittings and reporting the need for repairs and replacements.


School matron, as defined above, requires no medical training at all, although a first aid qualification "would be beneficial". A school nurse, on the same website, must have formal nursing qualifications.

#9:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:55 am
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Matey does most of those - although she doesn't do much of the pastoral work, short of noticing when girls are not doing well, and pointing it out to the staff.

She does keep an eye on health issues and diet and dentistry, and I presume her favorite sedative was non prescription. She also seems to do some of the household management, and oversees the girls' mending and tidiness.

It seems, though, that she has a lot more responsibility over girls who are actually ill than implied by the ad - in real life I would guess that
if a girl were actually ill or injured, she'd be turned over to the authority of the trained Nurse.

I have this mental picture of a poor Nurse, sitting alone in her little office with absolutely nothing to do, because Matron does it all. Maybe she ran a doctor/mistress matchmaking service in her spare time, as a side business.

And there's no mention of Matron having authority over the health and deportment of the staff and former pupils.

#10:  Author: TanLocation: London via Newcastle Australia PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:48 pm
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Thanks for the feedback. I think what had me puzzled was why have two different people responsible for health? I had always assumed that the role of the Matrons was the day to day management. Yet Matey always seemed to supply the medical care (thinking in particular of her patent nostrum remedies here). And I had completely missed the medical intro in New (my copy is somewhere in Oz).

#11:  Author: MelLocation: UP NORTH PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:03 pm
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Matey does quite a lot of supervising punishment too, such as Saturday night mending, punishment tea (Peggy) and don't non-Guides do mending on Saturday mornings?

#12:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:08 pm
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Caroline wrote:
School matron, as defined above, requires no medical training at all, although a first aid qualification "would be beneficial". A school nurse, on the same website, must have formal nursing qualifications.


Rather OT, I've just applied for a position at a secondary college that is First Aid/Administration, where the only requirement is that the recumbent is asked to have done a Level 2 First Aid certificate, or at least be willing to do so. In this litigious age, I'm astonished that they don't have someone with proper nursing qualifications! Shocked

#13:  Author: LizBLocation: Oxon, England PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:18 am
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Nurses often don't know general first aid, though - or certainly they didn't used to, I don't know if it 's a requirement now.

#14:  Author: jaceyLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:30 am
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KB wrote:

Rather OT, I've just applied for a position at a secondary college that is First Aid/Administration, where the only requirement is that the recumbent is asked to have done a Level 2 First Aid certificate, or at least be willing to do so. In this litigious age, I'm astonished that they don't have someone with proper nursing qualifications! Shocked


I have a lovely picture of you reclining in your office as the recumbent, KB Laughing

#15:  Author: LottieLocation: Humphrey's Corner PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:52 am
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My daughter has just been offered a post as deputy matron in a boarding house at a big public school. She is required to have knowledge of first aid, but not nursing. She will be allowed to administer sticking plasters (bandaid) and paracetamol, but nothing further. However she can always telephone the sister in the sanatorium for further advice; presumably any nursing care needed will be given there. She will also be expected to accompany the boys to A&E (ER) when necessary too!

#16:  Author: KatLocation: Kingston-upon-Thames/Swansea PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:07 am
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Nurses are not taught first aid!

I have no idea why not, but we aren't. In Swansea they wanted each student to pay to have first aid training, sadly because of other fees/money going out, only a small handful of people could afford the (very high) cost.

Kingston uni on the other hand, teach the very basics, and if you ask for more info, the lecturers will usually go into more depth either then, or will set aside time later on.

#17:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:51 am
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I do First Aid as part of my teaching course. I'm not sure if it's a proper certificate in First Aid, but it's a module anyway. I must check that out.

#18:  Author: Amanda MLocation: Wakefield PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:35 pm
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It's a standing joke in my family that if someone needs First Aid don't go to Amanda - I'll be too busy looking for all my monitoring equipment that I keep on the ward Laughing

#19:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:49 pm
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When cases do come into the San at the school, Matey seems to brush Nurse to one side, as though she isn't capable of looking after the girls.

I feel that what EBD was doing was to try to build up a few characters as the basis of her stories, and ignoring RL. It is fiction, after all, and she would probably never have even begun to imagine that her books would be the subject of web-sites and be examined and discussed quite so critically. She was writing for schoolgirls, after all, not adults.

#20:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:17 pm
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The reason nurses are not taught first aid is that, in general, they don't see someone when they have just had an accident - unless the poor unfortunate has had the accident in the hospital! They are taught the major things - resuscitation and care of bleeding.

And KB - if Australia is like England then a first aider - so long as they have done as they have been taught - cannot be sued. Whereas any professional, including a nurse, can - that may be why the job specifies a First Aider.

#21:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:16 pm
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Jennie wrote:

I feel that what EBD was doing was to try to build up a few characters as the basis of her stories, and ignoring RL.


That definitely seems likely. A lot of the teaching staff seem to be overlooked in the same way - although at least they have names! People like Mr and Miss Denny, Mlle de Lachennais, Mlle Berne and Frau Mieders are there for almost the entire series without ever getting a decent storyline, for lack of a better way of putting it.

#22:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:54 am
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Lesley wrote:
And KB - if Australia is like England then a first aider - so long as they have done as they have been taught - cannot be sued. Whereas any professional, including a nurse, can - that may be why the job specifies a First Aider.


It's the same in Australia, Lesley, but you would imagine that some parents would be keen to sue the school, at least, for not providing enough care for their little darlings.

And see me blush for being an idiot! Embarassed I meant incumbent, of course...

#23:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:40 am
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Alison H wrote:
Jennie wrote:

I feel that what EBD was doing was to try to build up a few characters as the basis of her stories, and ignoring RL.


That definitely seems likely. A lot of the teaching staff seem to be overlooked in the same way - although at least they have names! People like Mr and Miss Denny, Mlle de Lachennais, Mlle Berne and Frau Mieders are there for almost the entire series without ever getting a decent storyline, for lack of a better way of putting it.


Or worse, Miss Lawrence. All we get is a first name and the fact that she plays marches, and she's in nearly every book from the St Briaval's days.

At least in the unabridged version the Dennys, Frau Mieders and Mlle de Lachenais get some backstory about their history, even if they aren't fleshed out much in the present.

#24:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:37 pm
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And, as Matey so rarely seems to leave the school, how does she keep herself up to date?

#25:  Author: Dreaming MarianneLocation: The Peninusular PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:44 pm
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*Echos Kat* No, we're not taught first aid (except for resus etc). And while of course we can be sued, it's not as drastic as it sounds. If we were sued we would be assessed as whether we were something called "Bolam competent", which means that we would have to be measured as being as competent as should be expected of someone with our experience. So, for example, if I got sued after assisting at an RTA, i would be judged from the standard expected of a third year student, not as a staff nurse with ten years emergency department experience. Which is fair enough. (Please chip in anyone who wants to add to this point!)

#26:  Author: Dreaming MarianneLocation: The Peninusular PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:45 pm
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Jennie wrote:
And, as Matey so rarely seems to leave the school, how does she keep herself up to date?


She wouldn't be able to get away with that now (have to show evidence of continuing education!)

#27:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:57 pm
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Maybe she went to training courses at the San, and that's how she became such an expert on dosing people Wink .

#28:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:17 pm
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I don't think we can presume she never went to another course. As in any other teaching institution, there would be no time for such things during the term, so it'd be crammed into the "holidays," along with a gazillion other job-related duties of little interest to EBD's target audience. GO books are like Christmas card letters: even EBD is more likely to describe what's amusing than the daily grind.

#29:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:47 am
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On the original question, I think Nurse only appears when there are scenes actually in the school San - i.e. once the girls are sick and in bed. Matron handles everything outside the San.

That makes a certain amount of sense, as if there were girls sick or injured and in bed they would need someone closeby, while Matron was free to run around the school.

#30:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:10 am
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jennifer wrote:
On the original question, I think Nurse only appears when there are scenes actually in the school San

I think she's like the holographic Doctor in Voyager - is only activated when needed, has no name and can't leave the San. Laughing

#31:  Author: NicciLocation: UK PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:00 pm
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Matron here!

Traditionally School Matrons were qualified nurses, its really only in recent years that the majority aren't, and in fact, my predecessor Matron was a qualified nurse, but because the role of matron has changed she wasn't allowed to use any of her nursing skills, she had to stick to the basic first aid that we are all trained to do.

We have nurses a phone call away if we're ever unsure, for example a head injury, a possible broken bone or serious sickness.

In the school that I work at, each boarding house has its own matron, who looks after children when they're sick, gives out calpol/paracetamol and plasters, and administers any prescription drugs. There are certain guidelines we have to follow for this. If a child has to go in the medical room because they are so unwell, it is the matron's job to take care of them. A Nurse will usually offer to come and check them out, and may pop in to see the child if they happen to be in school. When we have a child off school because they are sick, the matron of that house is 'grounded', meaning that she can't leave the house unless someone comes to take over. We now have an intercom system so that matrons can work around the house, but can be contacted by the child if they need us.
We also look after the mental well being of the children by being someone they can talk to (as opposed to HouseParents who can sometimes appear too old or scary for young children). During the week we take children out of school for appointments.
In House we also have domestic duties which involve washing socks and pants etc, and sending uniform and muffti and bedclothes to the laundry and then unpacking it when it returns. We also have to name, mend and order new clothes for the children. We order food for the house form the main kitchens. We also discipline the children and inspect their dorms and prep areas. In my house I have the authority to give out punishments as and when I need to. The fun side of life in the House is playing with the children, particularly on the weekends when there are fewer chores to do.

In school our role becomes more medical, and we have a rota for being on the duty phone (which the office staff call if a child is ill or hurt in school) and a rota for being in the treatment room where children come direct to us a breaktimes. In the treatment rooms we are usually accompanied by a qualified nurse, and matrons act to filter which children they can deal with themselves (scratches, cuts, minor head injuries, nosebleeds, sickness, headaches etc) and which need to see the nurse (possible sprains, breaks, extremely high temperatures etc).


If a boarding child is seriously ill/hurt we first contact the nurse (unless it's life threatening) who walks over from the senior school medical centre. They will then advise us if the child needs to go to A&E. If they do, we accompany the child, usually with another member of staff. At our school we have trips to A&E every monday for some mysterious reason, and I'm just waiting for the day I meet a handsome doctor... (there are some there - I've seen them!)


ETA. Also I can now understand why Matey wanted to be called by name by the staff after her sister died, and Jack's comment about how everone always calls her Matey or Matron. I've had times of feeling the same way, Even the House parents in my house call me Matron, and very very occiasonally use my christian name. Staff outside use my name, but when you're enclosed in a house for the majority of the day, often for days in a row, you really want someone to use the personal touch and use your christian name.



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