Joey as a Student
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#1: Joey as a Student Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:18 am
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I was re-reading some of the Tyrol books and was struck by the difference between Joey as a student and later people (particularly Len and Mary-Lou), as well as the later view of Joey as a headgirl.

She has very little emotional self control as a girl, and doesn't show much evidence of any unusual empathy - she's tenderhearted to a sad story, and fiercely loyal family and to those she regards as friends, but makes no particular effort to understand those she doesn't like. She also actively dislikes sheepdogging.

She tends to get offended and stalk off when she is thwarted. When she's happy she gets wound up until she's bouncing off the walls, and when she's upset she tends to sulk. In many ways she's immature and emotionally volatile. She doesn't have the rebellious streak that Grizel had, or the nasty streak that Margot could demonstrate but

While headgirl she

- acts up when Robin is in danger (unreasonably blames Stacie for it, and after the danger is over bounces off the walls until everyone else is agitated and she has to be sent to bed) (Jo and the CS)

- hides her toothaches to avoid going to the dentist (New House)

- uses Madge's best clothing/linens/tablecloths/wedding veil for tableaux (with safety pins) and puts on an air of offended dignity when Madge freaks out, not apologising for the extra washing and ironing she's caused for the maids. (Exploits)

- takes an instant dislike to Joyce, in large part because she doesn't fawn over the Robin on first meeting (Lintons)

- tends to be overly thorough when dressing people down

Quote:

As for you, Joyce, you seem to be somewhat above yourself, and the only thing I can suggest is that you should try to realise that you are only a Middle -- and a very new Middle at that. It's rather too early for you to have assimilated our ideals, I suppose, though your sister doesn't seem to have had such trouble. Just get it into your head that all such things as passing notes are despised here, and the people who do them are considered despicable. And remember that you are really a very insignificant person, as well.


- feuds with Anne and gets overly offended when Anne tells Joey (less than tactfully) to shut up when she's trying to study. (New House)

- is deliberately obnoxious in class until she's permanently thrown out and then refuses to return. (Exploits)

Quote:
At the last lesson, Jo, who had wakened that morning in a bad temper, had lost her patience, never very great, and had done her level best to annoy him. She had dropped her rubber, broken the points of her pencils, dug the lead so deeply into the paper that there was no hope of rubbing out wrong lines - which were plentiful! - and had made such an appalling mess of the freehand design he had given her, that he had lost his head, and picking up pencils, rubber, and paper, had flung them at her. At the same time he had vowed that she was too utterly stupid to continue; whereupon Jo, very much on her dignity, had risen and left the room. What was more, she had refused to return.

#2:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:57 am
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I think Joey as a schoolgirl is quite a realistic character in that she has a lot of imperfections, rather than the post-14ish Mary-Lou and Len who (in CS eyes) never seem to put a foot wrong, but in later books everyone talks about Joey "butting in" etc as if she was always solving everyone's problems when she was at school, which she wasn't!

Not to mention the way she gets hysterical during the escape to Switzerland, instead of helping the younger girls, and then collapses on the trip from Guernsey to England so that Frieda and Bill are left literally holding the babies.

Very slightly OT - why are we supposed to think that so many people think Joey is so wonderful when she is at school? People outside the school apparently think she's wonderful - Frau Braun "adored her and thought there was no-one like her" - and Stacie Benson supposedly (according to Bill) gets upset and runs away all because Jo doesn't like her, regardless of all the other much more important problems she's had!

Having said which, I always think that the younger Joey is a much nicer person than the adult Joey, and than (the irritating!) Mary-Lou in the Swiss books, because she isn't meant to be "perfect" Very Happy .

#3:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:33 am
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Oh, I agree that adolescent Joey is a more more realistic character (if somewhat overdrawn at times) than Len or Mary-Lou at the same age. What struck me while reading the earlier books was how different the later view of Joey was from how she actually acted. I'm also a bit puzzled by how venerated she was as a student. I could see her being popular, and one of the movers and shakers of the school, but I could also easily see her grating on other people.

She has lots of good qualities - she's caring, she's often charming, she's a vivid, interesting person who could be a lot of fun to be with, but she is also someone who I think it would be tiring to be around. Being around a vivacious, highly energetic, emotionally volotile perpetual tease would be entertaining when you wanted stimulation, but could be very irritating if she was in a snit and you had to wait for her to stop being offended, or you needed to get things done and had her bouncing around, or just wanted to relax and chat calmly.

That said, she seems a bit unstable for a Head Girl, and not necessarily a particularly good example for the younger girls, or someone with particularly good judgement. When she does butt in, it's usually due to impulsiveness rather than deep empathy.

In comparison, Mary-Lou is all wise and all knowing and always sympathetic and insightful (if rather bossy and with a tendency to take too much on herself), and Len never demonstrates any faults at all, aside from being overcontientious.

#4:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:40 pm
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She did solve some problems while at school, but her method becomes more mature and sensible. Instead of rushing off, as she does for instance in saving Elisaveta, she talks Joyce Linton around to better behaviour and certainly shows some understanding. She takes the lead with Margot Venables. She only takes part in the meeting to decide the punishment of the Junior Middles in New only when she's invited, rather than butting in and taking over, as I can easily imagine OOAO doing.

#5:  Author: TiffanyLocation: Is this a duck I see behind me? PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:38 pm
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jennifer wrote:
What struck me while reading the earlier books was how different the later view of Joey was from how she actually acted. I'm also a bit puzzled by how venerated she was as a student. I could see her being popular, and one of the movers and shakers of the school, but I could also easily see her grating on other people.


Well, once the elder girls (Gisela and co.) have accepted Joey right at the beginning of the school, I suppose it becomes a kind of tradition: we look up to Joey, and hope to win her friendship, because our prefects / elder sisters / girls we admire do.

Joey is attractive - she's energetic and friendly and can give good advice when she chooses to - and there's probably some reflected glory attached to her because she's so close to the Heads and the Head Girls.

#6:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:14 pm
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I've often thought that if Jo had bothered a little more with Stacie Benson right at the beginning, there wouldn't have been so many problems for Stacie. Jo explained absolutely nothing important to her, then criticised the girl.

I found Jo tolerable as a schoolgirl, but given to far too many extremes of behaviour; as you all know, I can't abide the adult Jo.

She's depicted as all-wise, all-knowing, all-compassionate, etc., yet, when the really testing times come, she fails miserably.

I admit the trek to Switzerland was testing and arduous, but the younger girls seemed to cope better than Jo did, and she appeared to ignore the fact that Nell Wilson was in severe pain. Then, the journey back to England from Guernsey - again the collapse, leaving other people to cope with her responsibilities. The same when Jack was 'missing'. She left the girls to cope whilst she went to pieces.

Yet, we are, in effect, asked to admire this in her, as showing her great sensitivity, when so many women had to cope with far worse during the war years, and so did young children.

#7:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:32 pm
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Quote:
is deliberately obnoxious in class until she's permanently thrown out and then refuses to return. (Exploits)

Jo must have been a horror to teach because she just wouldn't try in subjects that didn't interest her - art, maths, sewing. Even in subjects she did like, such as history and languages, one gets the feeling she only did as much as she felt like doing.

Her overall problem, really, is always lack of self discipline. She won't exert herself to do things she doesn't want to do (maths) or to be pleasant to people she doesn't like (Matron Besley) or make an effort in situations where she's required to act responsibly.

#8:  Author: TanLocation: London via Newcastle Australia PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:45 pm
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I found her an interesting character as a younger girl for the reasons mentioned. It is interesting that she did not want to become Head Girl and Madge states that there is no one else suitable. I feel that Marie may have made a very good Head Girl - she is thoughtful and tactful.

It is interesting to read all of these instances of Joey butting in as a school girl, yet the first real 'butting in' that I can remember is when she intervenes with Polly Herriott (for good reasons as well).

One of the things that did stay with Joey was that lack of self-discipline - interesting how Margot suffers from the same difficulty ....

#9:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:03 pm
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Tan wrote:
It is interesting to read all of these instances of Joey butting in as a school girl, yet the first real 'butting in' that I can remember is when she intervenes with Polly Herriott (for good reasons as well).

Yes, the Polly Heriot affair is an example of Jo acting as a responsible adult. Her intervention with Margot, Daisy and Primula was also appropriate - whatever Jem said. He really was at his most obnoxious in that affair.

#10:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:20 pm
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JayB wrote:

Yes, the Polly Heriot affair is an example of Jo acting as a responsible adult. Her intervention with Margot, Daisy and Primula was also appropriate - whatever Jem said. He really was at his most obnoxious in that affair.


I got the feeling that Jem's real problem with the whole issue was having his family's dirty laundry aired to all and sundry - he sounds like he'd rather have the whole issue kept quiet until he had decided what to do about it and who to tell details to, while Joey drags it out into the open and tells everyone about it. For two seventeen year old girls in a familiar town to help a lost, tired mother with two small children and no knowledge of the local language doesn't strike me as all that daft.

On another note - I figure Margot Maynard got Jack's temper, as Joey is more the type to flare up quickly, sulk a bit and then forget about it, but inherited Joey's lack of self control - a bad combination.

I actually find Joey-junior to be very entertaining, if not a paragon of virtue. Early adult Joey is bearable - she's still pretty young, and Robin and Daisy aren't that much younger than she is, so she's more like an older sister to them and many of the others, and she does mature when she has kids, and when Jack is missing.

By late England days and into Switzerland she actually seems to regress, becoming less controlled and mature than she was in her mid twenties, more insistent on her perpetual schoolgirl status and much more obsessed with the school. At least in Guernsey and Armiford she has friends who aren't mistresses or old girls (okay, so most of them are the mothers of students) - by Switzerland I think her only non Chalet School friend is Phoebe Peters.

#11:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:01 pm
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jennifer wrote:
I got the feeling that Jem's real problem with the whole issue was having his family's dirty laundry aired to all and sundry - he sounds like he'd rather have the whole issue kept quiet until he had decided what to do about it and who to tell details to, while Joey drags it out into the open and tells everyone about it. For two seventeen year old girls in a familiar town to help a lost, tired mother with two small children and no knowledge of the local language doesn't strike me as all that daft.

I can understand Jem not wanting to have his family affairs broadcast throughout the school - tact and discretion are not Joey's strong points. I can also understand him being concerned at Jo and Frieda going with Margot to her hotel room - it might have been better if they'd stayed in the public rooms. But he needn't have been so rude to Frieda and Kurt. None of it was their fault.

Quote:
I actually find Joey-junior to be very entertaining, if not a paragon of virtue. Early adult Joey is bearable - she's still pretty young, and Robin and Daisy aren't that much younger than she is, so she's more like an older sister to them and many of the others, and she does mature when she has kids, and when Jack is missing.

By late England days and into Switzerland she actually seems to regress, becoming less controlled and mature than she was in her mid twenties, more insistent on her perpetual schoolgirl status and much more obsessed with the school.

Jo's problem is she never has to take responsibility for anything. She goes from being cossetted by Madge and Jem to being cosetted by Jack. In their married life he makes all the big decisions - sending Margot to Canada, moving to Switzerland, buying the house - Jo just goes along with it all. Blaming Margot's devil for Margot's bad behaviour lets Jo off the hook as well as Margot.

One problem I think is that once Jo was married with children and the challenges of the war years were past, EBD ran out of storylines for her. All she could do was give her another baby every couple of years. Making her every girl's confidante was the only way of keeping her central to the series. Whereas in the earlier books there was plenty of scope in tracing Jo's growth from naughty Middle to Head Girl to published writer to wife and mother.

I wonder if EBD herself realised the character had reached a dead end and in sending her to Canada was attempting to write her out, but her readers or publishers wouldn't let her.

#12:  Author: KatherineLocation: London, UK PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:41 pm
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jennifer wrote:

That said, she seems a bit unstable for a Head Girl, and not necessarily a particularly good example for the younger girls, or someone with particularly good judgement. When she does butt in, it's usually due to impulsiveness rather than deep empathy.

Tan wrote:
I found her an interesting character as a younger girl for the reasons mentioned. It is interesting that she did not want to become Head Girl and Madge states that there is no one else suitable. I feel that Marie may have made a very good Head Girl - she is thoughtful and tactful.

She reminds me of someone I knew at university; very charismatic and becasue of that a natural leader. Equally, this person could sulk and be very difficult to deal with at times but they were always in the thick of thinks like Joey. (And generally great to be around.)


Jennie wrote:

I admit the trek to Switzerland was testing and arduous, but the younger girls seemed to cope better than Jo did, and she appeared to ignore the fact that Nell Wilson was in severe pain. Then, the journey back to England from Guernsey - again the collapse, leaving other people to cope with her responsibilities. The same when Jack was 'missing'. She left the girls to cope whilst she went to pieces.

Yet, we are, in effect, asked to admire this in her, as showing her great sensitivity, when so many women had to cope with far worse during the war years, and so did young children.

I think that part of the reason EBD had her collapse was to make us sympathise with her extreme senstivity and also to make the exploits more exciting. Joey doesn't do stiff upper lip and it's a general feature of the school that if you need that support you should be allowed, even forced to have it, you shouldn't have to cope on your own. Think of the way Jack takes charge of Matey after her sister dies and Grizel in Reunion.

#13:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:18 pm
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The problem was that I didn't feel anything but annoyance with her. She was not a good example to the younger girls when they trekked out of Austria, and her collapse was unwarranted. I notice that the Robin's health wasn't fussed over, even though she suffered the same privations as the others.

When she was brought back from Guernsey on Nigel Willoughby's yacht, she ignored the fact that they were all in danger. Nigel was married with young children, so he must have been frantic with worry, and Jo's collapse when they reached dry land was just a case of hysteria. I know she had the triplets by then, but other women go through worries and have to cope afterwards. I think that what I'm trying to say is that Jo never behaves in the way that she tells other people to, and completely lets down the values of the CS that she preaches.

I don't think her sojourn in India helped her to mature much at all, she went from Madge and Jem to Dick and Mollie, all of whom pampered her.

#14:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:42 pm
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Jennie wrote:
The problem was that I didn't feel anything but annoyance with her. She was not a good example to the younger girls when they trekked out of Austria, and her collapse was unwarranted. I notice that the Robin's health wasn't fussed over, even though she suffered the same privations as the others.


Maybe the fact that Joey was older than the schoolgirls meant she had a greater understanding of the danger they were in and was therefore under more strain? I can see Jack, Gottfried and Bill trying to shield the younger girls from the extent of their danger, but they can't shield Jo. Robin is ill on the journey - despite being carried much of the way by the men - and EBD comments on how remarkable it is that she revives when they get back to the mountains. Most of the others are all strong, matter of fact types - Lorenz, Hilary, Evvy and Corney.

It seems to me that this is all down to Joey's temperament - she is intensely artistic and imaginative, and struggles to cope with emotional strain. This is part of her characterisation from day one, so I don't see anything inconsistent or annoying in the fact that she found the flight from Austria difficult to cope with.

But then I like Joey.

#15:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:00 pm
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I think the difference is that Robin is physically frail and mentally strong. Robin handles a lot of the emotional strains much better than Joey - she loses her mother and her father tragically when old enough to remember them, she has a great deal of restriction on what she can and can't do due to her health, which she accepts cheerfully. Emotionally she handles all of the war incidents with fortitude and resilience and tends to think of the needs of others first. She's kept very childish for a long time, but when they can no longer protect her she rises to the challenge.

Joey, on the other hand, is physically fine after her mid teens, but is mentally and emotionally fragile. She can't handle stress, either good or bad. She chafes and complains when she has restrictions due to her own health and well being and she frets herself into illness. She's helpful and considerate to others when she's feeling okay, but when things get bad and she gets over stressed she collapses (genuinely and not faking it) and has to be cared for by others. She does this after the picnic with the Nazis, after the flight from Austria, after the trip to England, when Jack is missing and so on.

Interestingly, at the begining of Exile it's Robin who picks up most readily on the tensions and the worries. She's putting two and two together when Joey is still being flippant and looking at it as an adventure. When they're on the flight, it's Joey who get hysterical and overly emotional and needs cossetting. Emotionally and mentally Robin is much more mature than Joey ever becomes.

#16:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:23 pm
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I agree about Robin. I don't like "little" Robin - probably because of the way other people treat her as a baby more than because of the way she is herself - but I really like her in Exile/War/Highland Twins, and although I think the Robin fill-in is excellent I wish EBD'd covered Robin's time as Head Girl.

& I wish Robin got more credit later on for being the one who rushed out of the café to try to help Herr Goldmann.

#17:  Author: MelLocation: UP NORTH PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:56 pm
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These posts are very interesting. The worst examle of Jo's weakness to me is the journey from Guernsey when she has three babies to care for. We are always led to believe that she is the perfect mother. She always has to be looked after either physically or emotionally. EBD likes to think of her in the top three of her strong women with Mary-Lou and Len - but when is she ever strong? I can think of only her 'rescuing' missions - Elisaveta, Corney, Robin etc when she got an adrenalin rush. In these adventures she is physically brave, but in so many situations she goes under.

#18:  Author: TaraLocation: Malvern, Worcestershire PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:50 am
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Alison H wrote:
I wish Robin got more credit later on for being the one who rushed out of the café to try to help Herr Goldmann.


I think part of the interest in that episode (one of the strongest in the whole canon, it seems to me) is that it is the Robin, who is young and unaware, who rushes out. The others do so only to protect her, and Bill, who fully realises the danger the girls are in, is horrified and frantic - and gets the coat torn off her back trying to rescue them.

On the one hand, it is useless heroism, typical of a caring but unaware child, and making matters worse - both the Goldmanns and Vater Johann are killed, and the girls and Bill have to flee. On the other, it is, perhaps, what we would all want to think we would do, good sense and expediency notwithstanding. Very powerful stuff.

#19:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:37 am
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jennifer wrote:
Interestingly, at the begining of Exile it's Robin who picks up most readily on the tensions and the worries. She's putting two and two together when Joey is still being flippant and looking at it as an adventure. When they're on the flight, it's Joey who get hysterical and overly emotional and needs cossetting. Emotionally and mentally Robin is much more mature than Joey ever becomes.


I wonder if Jo's flippancy is, in part, because she is frightened about what might be coming and is suppressing madly by pretending that nothing is wrong? Or perhaps Madge and Jem are just more careful about not talking of their worries in front of her, because they understand her temperament and her emotional response to such worries?

Mel wrote:
The worst examle of Jo's weakness to me is the journey from Guernsey when she has three babies to care for. We are always led to believe that she is the perfect mother. She always has to be looked after either physically or emotionally. EBD likes to think of her in the top three of her strong women with Mary-Lou and Len - but when is she ever strong?


Jo is strong for herself and for others on many, many occassions (I'm thinking Maria Balbini, Madge and Sybil, Phoebe, Daisy, Jane Carew, Corney, Mary-Lou, Matey, Grizel - just off the top of my head) - and not just on spur of the moment, adrenaline-charged rescues. Yes, she sometimes has a bit of a collapse after the event, but she's the heroine of the story (largely) and that's what heroines do! She not alone either - plenty of other Chalet girls do something heroic and then have a "reaction" afterwards.

I would argue that the trip from Guernsey is the culmination of two years of emotional turmoil for Jo in which she has: (in no particular order) had to flee for her life, fallen in love, finally accept that she has to grow up, become pregnant, leave the country she loves and watch it be invaded by the Nazis, fear for the lifes of most of her friends, had people she know and loved die in a concentration camp, marry, see her husband of a few months go to war, have triplets by herself without even her sister at her side, deal with a German spy, and then flee for her life again, whilst still breastfeeding three babies. Yes, other characters have gone through similar / the same things, but I think the remarkable thing is that none of the others collapsed, not that Jo did collapse. But then she's the heroine - that automatically makes her centre stage, and her emotional response is designed to provoke our emotional response to the story - she's our way in. It would be maudlin and depressing to read about every character breaking down in some way, so Jo's breakdown becomes representative of them all.

You could almost argue that she (and Bill and the others) had post traumatic stress disorder by that point.

#20:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:27 pm
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I think that what I dislike the most is that she always has to be the centre of attention, and it's overdone and unnecessary.

For example, at the end of 'Island'. Jo is supposed to be telling them the denouement between Annis' father and aunt. What we get is a long rigamarole about why Jo needed to go to Penny Rest (Michael had been teething for a week and she was short of sleep), then the meeting between Annis father and aunt is played down. It has to be Jo of course who snubs the aunt severely.

Well, how many mothers don't have broken nights and tired days when their children are teething? I certainly did, and I had to carry on, and so do most women. It's just another example of Jo being given centre stage, when the outcome of Annis story is what we really want to read about.

#21:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:36 pm
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Jennie wrote:
I think that what I dislike the most is that she always has to be the centre of attention, and it's overdone and unnecessary.


I would suspect that she was used to being the centre of attention as a child. Madge was her primary caregiver and was devoted to her and her physical frailty meant that she was cosseted and hovered over at the least sign of illness. When the school started she was the sister of the head and had an inside track on what was happening and with her personality was naturally one of the central figures at the school.

However, when the school was in session and Madge moved up to the Sonnalpe and she was becoming stronger, she didn't get the same sort of focused attention from her sister as she had before - unless she was ill or overstressed, when everyone fussed over her like they used to. So then there is a feedback effect - when Joey collapses or is over tired and gets ill or is acting her most outrageous, people pay attention to her and she's the most important person in the room. If she's just sitting there quietly and minding her own business, or getting on with things without any dramatics, the attention shifts to others.

#22:  Author: MelLocation: UP NORTH PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:04 am
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I think perhaps the problem is that EBD thought that by making Joey so emotional and highly strung and prone to collapse that she was creating a character that everyone would admire. To be sensitive is very high on Elinor's list of esteemed qualities. Unfortunately I think she overdid it.

#23:  Author: CarolineLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:31 am
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jennifer wrote:
Jennie wrote:
I think that what I dislike the most is that she always has to be the centre of attention, and it's overdone and unnecessary.


I would suspect that she was used to being the centre of attention as a child. Madge was her primary caregiver and was devoted to her and her physical frailty meant that she was cosseted and hovered over at the least sign of illness. When the school started she was the sister of the head and had an inside track on what was happening and with her personality was naturally one of the central figures at the school.

However, when the school was in session and Madge moved up to the Sonnalpe and she was becoming stronger, she didn't get the same sort of focused attention from her sister as she had before - unless she was ill or overstressed, when everyone fussed over her like they used to. So then there is a feedback effect - when Joey collapses or is over tired and gets ill or is acting her most outrageous, people pay attention to her and she's the most important person in the room. If she's just sitting there quietly and minding her own business, or getting on with things without any dramatics, the attention shifts to others.


You know, that all suggests a rather cynical, knowing, demanding self-centredness about Joey that I just don't see at all. But each to their own, I guess.

Caroline.

#24:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:15 am
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Jennifer:
Quote:
....when Joey collapses or is over tired and gets ill or is acting her most outrageous, people pay attention to her and she's the most important person in the room. If she's just sitting there quietly and minding her own business, or getting on with things without any dramatics, the attention shifts to others.
Caroline:
Quote:
You know, that all suggests a rather cynical, knowing, demanding self-centredness about Joey that I just don't see at all. But each to their own, I guess.

Me:
Oh, I don't think Joey is aware of any of this. I think she's just been so accustomed from childhood to being the centre of attention, and has never been made to acquire self control, so that she takes it for granted and just doesn't know any other way to be.

Mel:
Quote:
I think perhaps... EBD thought that by making Joey so emotional and highly strung and prone to collapse that she was creating a character that everyone would admire. To be sensitive is very high on Elinor's list of esteemed qualities.

Me:
It's only Joey who's allowed this kind of emotionalism. Everyone else is just supposed to get on with things. 'No-one at the Chalet School was ever encouraged to feel sorry for herself' - even when feeling sorry for oneself would be the most appropriate reaction to whatever had happened.

#25:  Author: KatherineLocation: London, UK PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:35 am
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JayB wrote:
It's only Joey who's allowed this kind of emotionalism. Everyone else is just supposed to get on with things. 'No-one at the Chalet School was ever encouraged to feel sorry for herself' - even when feeling sorry for oneself would be the most appropriate reaction to whatever had happened.

I think that sometime EBD just seemed to skip over things, like the Robin's father's death, without really considering the effect that the event would have on the person. But she does say that Daisy still missed Margot after she dies (although Primula is considered too young to be as affected and she was quite old).
But I say that people were encouraged to feel sorry for themselves when they really needed it, eg. Matey and Grizel, it's just that EBD seemed to set the bar for needing it rather higher than I might have done.

#26:  Author: jenniferLocation: Taiwan PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:21 pm
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I think that as an adult those near Joey recognise her emotional frailty - Jack, Jem, Madge, Miss Annersley, Miss Wilson, Matey, the older children all recognise that Joey needs to be forced to rest when she's over tired, and that she's excitable and high strung volatile and tends to work or fret or bounce her way into overexhaustion and psychologically triggered illness,.

I don't think *Joey* ever accepts that, though. It's always Joey talking about how Jack or Jem or Madge has seen how white and over tired she is and sent the younger children off and forced her to have a vacation, or Jack noticing that she's been ill and needs to be checked out, or the Miss Annersley saying that she doesn't need to be worried.

We never see Joey say that she's really tired and strung out so she won't be by the school for a few days, or arranging babysitting so she can get a few good nights sleep, or forcing herself to calm down and remove herself from a situation that's agitating her. She never learns to take ownership of her own emotional and physical well being.

I wonder if it was some sort of fantasy of EBDs - having a strong, kind handsome doctor come by, fall in love with her at a moment's notice sweep her off her feet and masterfully take care of her, removing all responsiblities and worries from her shoulders?

#27:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:30 pm
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Don't know about EBD but I wish it'd happen to me Laughing Laughing !

Minus the "doses" in the drinks though Rolling Eyes .

#28:  Author: SquirrelLocation: St-Andrews or Dunfermline PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:25 pm
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I don't know... I'm sure I'd find life most boring, and get extremely irritated if someone tried to boss me around to that extent.



The CBB -> Anything Else


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