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#1: His yoke is easy? Author: Xanthe, Location: London/Cambridge

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:03 pm
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I know that they had separate prayers, but I was just (not that I am procrastinating much at all) wondering how the CS would have managed in "Scripture" lessons. Because those seem basically to have been biblically-based & interpretative. So how would the Protestant-Catholic divide have been worked then: particularly before Vatican II?

Or maybe I am just having a special moment and the books say they divide for Scripture lessons too... Rolling Eyes

#2: Author: Pat, Location: Doncaster

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:05 pm
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There is no mention of them dividing for Scripture lessons, which surprises me now you've brought it up Xan. You'd have thought that there was far more need for that than for Prayers!

#3: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:09 pm
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There's no mention of them dividing for Scripture lessons, and Miss Annersley seems to take all the Scripture lessons - there's no mention of anyone else taking them that I can think of. & they do seem to concentrate on the New Testament: there's no mention of them learning anything else religion-related. Maybe they had to write down both interpretations of things like transubstantiation/consubstantiation (if they could spell them which I always have major problems doing!!) , but that sounds a bit of a weird way of teaching things.

Never thought of that before!

#4: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 7:02 pm
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They also do Old Testament -- 'Daniel bit the lions' springs to mind.

I imagine they'd have kept to learning the stories, and interpretations for practical living, rather than bothering about theology. Doubtless that's left for whoever's in charge of sacramental preparation, another thing with no mention whatsoever. I seem to recall a discussion that involved timing of sacraments in the 30s-50s and whether or not it could all be done at home, but it still wasn't too convincing .... Possibly the subject just wasn't considered suitable for school stories aimed at a general audience. I suspect that integrating Catholics & Protestants was already fairly close to the edge of acceptability.

#5: Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:11 pm
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I was at a Catholic Convent School in the 50's and there was no provision made for non-Catholics at any stage of the religious procedures - not even for non-Christians.

At the time, we had a few Hindus, Muslims and Jews among us and I presume the view was that, since their parents had sent them to the school, they knew what they were getting into.

I do remember that, in the VIth form, there was some discussion of other Faiths and it certainly informed my perception of the 'Truth' of the dogma we had been taught but I don't remember any conflict.

#6: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:12 pm
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I only went to Catholic school during the sixties, but can still remember the civil war that erupted when we adopted a text that included a picture of Martin Luther. No one seemed too exercised about the field trips to synagogue and mosque, but Protestants were just too threatening for some factions. Confused

#7: Author: Xanthe, Location: London/Cambridge

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:20 pm
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Kathy_S wrote:

Doubtless that's left for whoever's in charge of sacramental preparation, another thing with no mention whatsoever. I seem to recall a discussion that involved timing of sacraments in the 30s-50s and whether or not it could all be done at home, but it still wasn't too convincing ....

Now THAT'S something that's bugged me since I started reading the books pretty much. Because they'd've been making their First Holy Communion at about 7/8 and being Confirmed at about 9/10 in all likelihood and it surely couldn't all be done in the holidays? Plus there would have been the issue of dresses & veils...

#8: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:53 pm
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I went to a Catholic school but you'd never have known it if we hadn't had a big cross on one of the walls! We spent most Religious Education periods learning about Hinduism, Buddhism or philosphy...

I'm pretty sure when they had 'scripture' it was just relating bible stories to every day life. I suppose it would be a bit problematic since the Protestant and Catholic bibles were actually different, but I don't think they were that different. I doubt the Chaletians were doing hard core theology.

When you think about it, it was very broadminded of EBD to even have a school with a Catholic/Protestant mixture in the 20s.

#9: Author: Elle, Location: Peterborough

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 7:40 am
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Vatican II? Could someone explain this please!

#10: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:04 am
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Elle wrote:

Vatican II? Could someone explain this please!

Vatican II is the common name for the Second Vatican Council which was an assembly of bishops held in 1962-1965 to reform and update (basically liberalise and modernise) the Catholic Church. It stressed greater lay participation in the Church, it allowed for vernacular languages in services (instead of Latin) and tried to create an ecumenical environment... The Protestant and Eastern churches were allowed to send representatives and relations were sort of smoothed over - or they tried to anyway. It was more accepted after that that Protestants weren't "wrong" and so on...

^^ In a nutshell! Google can probably get you a more detailed and possibly more accurate answer! Smile

#11: Author: Liss, Location: Richmond

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:11 am
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Didn't the school have quite close links to the churches (in the earlier books, at any rate)? Perhaps that sort of religious instruction was done through them, rather than the school - when I was 11, I was having confirmation lessons while being at school, and we got sent off to the vicar of the next-door church for them.

It's interesting though - certainly as Juniors, and probably Middles, RE probably took the form of ye Bible story, but the CS was supposed to be relatively modern academically, and you would expect that the Senior girls at least would be expected to do a lot more than that. Though, given that they don't appear to have had a proper RE teacher, maybe not...

#12: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:25 am
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In Tyrol there was an Anglican chaplain whose wife was a patient at and eventually passed away at the San, and in Armishire (I think) there was some reference to a local vicar and a local Catholic priest who'd been at theological college together. & on the island there was some mention of a local minister and there being a monastery nearby (from which a monk came over to take services for the Catholic girls). & there was an Anglican chapel at the Sonnalpe by the time Juliet and Donal got married. Can't remember the local clergy featuring much in Switzerland though.

#13: Author: Alex, Location: Cambs, UK

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:12 pm
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Xanthe wrote:

Because they'd've been making their First Holy Communion at about 7/8 and being Confirmed at about 9/10 in all likelihood and it surely couldn't all be done in the holidays?

I think at this time they would have been younger. We have a photo of my Nan in her First Commuinion dress (born 1914) and she is 4. She was probably confirmed a year later. And my mum (born 1956) made her First Communion aged 5 and was confirmed at 7, so I think it's quite likely that they would have all been "done" before they even started school.

#14: Author: Fatima, Location: Sunny Qatar

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:28 pm
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Do we ever hear anything about the Maynard triplets' first communions? I don't recall anything, but I have read very few hardbacks. Presumably if they aren't mentioned, there would not be much about anyone else's. Might it not be seen as a little too pro-Catholic if they were mentioned?

#15: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 4:27 pm
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We had a discussion about this on the old board and IIRC the verdict was that most people would've made their first communions at home so that their families could be present. That doesn't explain the Maynards though, as we see their home all their time Rolling Eyes

. Maybe EBD just wasn't keen on "showing" religious services or thought they weren't relevant to the stories? We don't get to see an awful lot of weddings or christenings (or funerals for that matter) either - but at least they get mentioned in passing.

#16: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 6:52 pm
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This certainly never occured to me (shocking considering it's what I teach!). At the time when EBD was writing, RE was pretty much "Christians believe..." and was taught along the lines of "we believe.." (Indoctrination)

Now the norm is to teach "some Christians/Hindus/Jews/Muslims/ Buddhists/Sikhs believe..." Therefore RE is more educational - exposure to different beliefs and values, and philosophical considerations of those beliefs.

Miss A's scripture lessons seem to be memorising Bible stories, talking about the meaning behind the stories and application to daily life. This would not be a problem for the mixed denominational classes, IMHO.

#17: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:14 pm
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I wonder what EBD did in her own school which she wanted to be inter-denominational, though I don't know whether this was achieved. She named her school Margaret Roper as she thought Thomas More sounded like a Catholic school. (According to Behind the Chalet School)

#18: Author: Xanthe, Location: London/Cambridge

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:15 pm
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Alex wrote:

my mum (born 1956) made her First Communion aged 5 and was confirmed at 7, so I think it's quite likely that they would have all been "done" before they even started school.

My mum (born 1954) and her sister (born 1957/8... I forget which...) did things at the ages I gave though, so I am guessing there was some variation in this...

#19: Author: Liane, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 9:06 pm
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Mel wrote:

She named her school Margaret Roper as she thought Thomas More sounded like a Catholic school. (According to Behind the Chalet School)

My dad went to Thomas More RC High School.
To be quite honest I don't really know much about the life of EBD's school. Embarassed

I'd like to though.

#20: Author: Tara, Location: Malvern, Worcestershire

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:32 am
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There's certainly nothing about first communions etc. Although EBD converted to Catholicism, the tone is very Anglican, I think - perhaps because she didn't change until she was well into adulthood? She does avoid very denomination-specific things anyway, possibly they wouldn't fit with her very ecumenical views, which were very startling for her time. I was still being taught that the Pope was the Anti-Christ in the 50s and 60s, hard though it is to believe. I think it's in Fardingales that EBD has the local Catholic priest sharing a vicarage with the Presbyterian (or is he Methodist - something non-conformist, anyway) minister. Yay for EBD!

#21: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:28 am
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Xanthe wrote:

Alex wrote:

my mum (born 1956) made her First Communion aged 5 and was confirmed at 7, so I think it's quite likely that they would have all been "done" before they even started school.

My mum (born 1954) and her sister (born 1957/8... I forget which...) did things at the ages I gave though, so I am guessing there was some variation in this...

I know there's been a lot of variation over the years in timing of sacraments, often involving discussion of what constituted the "age of reason" and "age of discretion." In my time and place, the official "age of reason and discretion" was seven, so that's when first communion occurred, with confirmation a few years later. There was some flexibility though. For example, one of my younger sisters (b. 1957) was given a special dispensation for communion at age 6, since it was feared she wouldn't make it to 7. (Fortunately, she did.)

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