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#1: English/French Lines? Author: Rob, Location: Derbyshire, England

Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 11:43 pm
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EBD makes a big deal about the fact that the Chalet School was run on English Lines (I have a vision of 'the fawn' telling Captain Humphries that she'd heard that there was a school run by a frenchwoman Shocked

around the lakeside, but that her school (the original Saints) was English, stuck in my head, though I haven't read Rivals for ages!)

Does anyone happen to know what boarding schools, run on French/Continental Lines would have been like at the time when EBD was writing the early Chalet Books?

I always assumed that this meant that they didn't offer as balanced a curriculum as English schools did and that they didn't offer (English) sports/games. What does anyone else think - or does anyone know for sure?

#2: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:42 am
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The impression EBD gives is that Continental schools were very strict - the Austrian girls go on about how hard people at Austrian and German schools have to work, and when Simone's in the Sixth Form she's concerned that she might not be up to standard when she goes to the Sorbonne because the work at French schools was more "strenuous". Not sure how accurate that is though.

There does definitely seem to've been this "Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton" idea that British schools put more emphasis on sports than Continental schools did, though.

#3: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:26 am
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I think the 'English education' as presented in the CS books, is supposed to be more rounded - yes, it's academically rigorous, but it's about more than just being scholarly. It's about being healthy in mind and body - so, being good at or keen at sports, and also developing one's character, being sporting and decent and honourable - the schoolgirl code - looking out for others, not 'sneaking', etc etc.

EBD didn't do this as much, but other English writers of that era always seemed to portray French girls as dishonourable and rubbish at games - think of Claudine in the St Clares books, lying and cheating and doing anything to get her own way (and not thinking there is anything wrong in that), and avoiding sport at all costs. Think also of the Saints initial attitude to the Chaletians - oh, they are all foreigners, they probably play hockey with a soft ball and are still scared of it.

So, the suggestion is that continental schools are all about academic acheivement above all, whereas English schools are more about an all-round education - mind, body and spirit, as well as lessons.

Caroline.

#4: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:47 am
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I love the unconscious irony of the part in School At where Gisela and the others think that English girls are dishonourable, because of the school stories they read - the Sneak of the Fourth etc. EBD does feel that she is breaking the mould about national stereotypes.

#5: Author: Alex, Location: Cambs, UK

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:49 am
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I understand that science (nowadays at least) is taught very academically in France with more emphasis on the theory than the practical (especially physics).

#6: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Leeds

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 1:40 pm
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Miss Browne at the start of Rivals says she had heard there was a school run by a Frenchwoman and "we all know what their ideas on education are". I always took this to be derogatory i.e. a French education was academically weak - probably all needlework and art. This conflicts with Simone's comments on the Sorbonne, so I guess she could have meant a French education was very strict with no time for fun.

Last edited by Sarah_L on Tue May 09, 2006 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

#7: Author: Tiffany, Location: madthesispanicargh

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 2:00 pm
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Sarah_L wrote:

Miss Browne at the start of Rivals says she had heard there was a school run by a Frenchwoman and we all know what their ideas on education are. I always took this to be derogatory i.e. a French education was academically weak - probably all needlework and art. This conflicts with Simone's comments on the Sorbonne, so I guess she could have meant a French education was very strict with no time for fun.

She could have meant that the curriculum was different - not just no games, but maybe academic subjects taught in different ways, or with different emphasis. Various new Chalet girls (Mary-Lou springs to mind, but I'm sure she's not alone) have been learning by the 'wrong' methods and have to unlearn things before they can learn in the Chalet way... EBD seems very keen on modern (for her) teaching ideas, so perhaps she felt foreign schools were more 'behind the times'?

#8: Author: Rosie, Location: Huntingdonshire/Bangor

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 4:02 pm
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My brain is melting out of my ears, but isn't there a description of French (state) education in When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit, and the child-whose-name-I've-forgotten passes the exam because she can stand on one leg?

I'll let someone else relate this to the point I may or may not have been trying to make... Embarassed

#9: Author: Xanthe, Location: London/Cambridge

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 4:18 pm
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Rosie wrote:

My brain is melting out of my ears, but isn't there a description of French (state) education in When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit, and the child-whose-name-I've-forgotten passes the exam because she can stand on one leg?

I'll let someone else relate this to the point I may or may not have been trying to make... Embarassed

Anna? And yes... she fails needlework, but she can stand on one leg & get s a distinction so it balances out...

#10: Author: Tiffany, Location: madthesispanicargh

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 4:47 pm
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Xanthe wrote:

Rosie wrote:

Anna? And yes... she fails needlework, but she can stand on one leg & get s a distinction so it balances out...

the Chalet should have had that as an option for all the British girls who hated needlework...

#11: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 5:27 pm
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Alex wrote:

I understand that science (nowadays at least) is taught very academically in France with more emphasis on the theory than the practical (especially physics).

I believe that is so in British schools nowadays, too - at least, according to the recent series of That'll Teach 'em, where practical experiments, and a practical exam, in the science subjects were new to most of the children involved.

#12: Re: English/French Lines? Author: Cryst,

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:14 pm
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Rob wrote:

Does anyone happen to know what boarding schools, run on French/Continental Lines would have been like at the time when EBD was writing the early Chalet Books?

Presumably they would not have naughty middles, as all continental girls are brought up to be obedient?

#13: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 2:32 am
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I get the impression that the Fawn was thinking about more of a finishing school situation -there's a passage in Theodora about a boarding school in England

Quote:

The next effort was even worse - a very select school where the girls
learnt ballet-dancing, riding, French conversation - she's scored
there. She speaks French like a native! - art embroidery and I'm not
sure that painting on china wasn't included!

I found *that* comment interesting given that the girls at the Chalet school learn needlework, French, country dancing,and Gisela and Marie (I think) did chinapainting.

#14: Author: Mia, Location: London

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:42 am
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jennifer wrote:

Quote:

I found *that* comment interesting given that the girls at the Chalet school learn needlework, French, country dancing,and Gisela and Marie (I think) did chinapainting.

Mm, yes, but I think that gives the impression that was *all* they learnt at the select school !

#15: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:33 am
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Yes - I never found the CS to be rigorous academically. The afternoons seem to be spent on Art, Needlework, Games and Prep etc. I also found that spending two or three afternoons by the lake for swimming and boating rather unlikely, partly the time factor. It would take hours to get virtually the whole school down to the lake, swimming, eating, rest, then boating or whichever way round it was and doing some prep or making costumes for the Panto! On the same rant, in the Tyrol books each form spends one day per week doing Housecraft! 20% of the week's work!

#16: Author: serendipity, Location: Leeds, UK

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 1:13 pm
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Mel wrote:

Yes - I never found the CS to be rigorous academically. The afternoons seem to be spent on Art, Needlework, Games and Prep etc. I also found that spending two or three afternoons by the lake for swimming and boating rather unlikely, partly the time factor. It would take hours to get virtually the whole school down to the lake, swimming, eating, rest, then boating or whichever way round it was and doing some prep or making costumes for the Panto! On the same rant, in the Tyrol books each form spends one day per week doing Housecraft! 20% of the week's work!

Quite agree - yet those who wish seem to waltz off to Oxford without so much as breaking into a sweat. And surely it had to be more difficult (especially for a girl) to get into Oxford in the 30s/40s/50s/60s.

#17: Author: Jennie, Location: Cambridgeshire

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 1:47 pm
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Perhaps it was because their parent could afford to pay for them.

As for the education, I always get the impression that the CS never believes that you know anything unless they've taught it to you.

#18: Author: francesn, Location: away with the faeries

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:24 pm
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jennifer wrote:

I get the impression that the Fawn was thinking about more of a finishing school situation -there's a passage in Theodora about a boarding school in England

Quote:

I found *that* comment interesting given that the girls at the Chalet school learn needlework, French, country dancing,and Gisela and Marie (I think) did chinapainting.

*cough* my first secondary school *cough*

#19: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:42 pm
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& they had to stay in bed all morning if they'd been on a trip that got back in the evening the day before, not to mention going to bed for the afternoon if they got wet! As well as the trips to Lake Thun in the summer and the ski-ing etc in the winter. Sounds like great fun - but not sure when they ever got chance to learn much!

& didn't they all have to go and sit quietly for half an hour after Mittagessen because they would've been soooo exhausted after morning lessons?

Do we ever get to hear about a full set of public exam results? The nearest I can think of is when we hear that Biddy O'Ryan's year group've passed their School Cert (or was it their Higher School Cert)? Would love to know what sort of results they actually got in general ... er, sometimes forget that these are "only" books and not RL ...

#20: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:51 am
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I'd particularly wonder about the academic level given the trilingual aspect -I'd guess that having to do from 1/3 to 2/3 of the classes in a non familiar language would put back girls at least a year in subject matter, as they caught up with the language enough to understand the lectures.

When I reread the Tyrol books, I noticed that Joey misses an awful lot of school due to illness - a week here, two weeks there, a significant fraction of a term in Rivals.

#21: Author: Rachel, Location: West Coast of Scotland

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:54 am
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jennifer wrote:

I'd particularly wonder about the academic level given the trilingual aspect -I'd guess that having to do from 1/3 to 2/3 of the classes in a non familiar language would put back girls at least a year in subject matter, as they caught up with the language enough to understand the lectures.

And what about the poor little Norwegian girls who arrive at the CS unable to speak anything other than their own language? They don't even get one day per week to work in, or speak, their own tongue - cos there isn't anyone else speaking it to talk to on their "free language" day!!

#22: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 10:00 am
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jennifer wrote:

.

When I reread the Tyrol books, I noticed that Joey misses an awful lot of school due to illness - a week here, two weeks there, a significant fraction of a term in Rivals.

In Trials, several people get scarlet fever and are ill for quite a few weeks in the term before their public exams. Josette Russell is worried about missing out on revision time, and one of the mistresses says something along the lines of "Oh, if you're not ready now you ought to be!" I've no idea whether or not the system of informing the exam board of extenuating circumstances and ask that they be taken into account existed in the 1950s, but it seemed to be assumed that missing out on several weeks of work/revision just before the exams wasn't going to cause a problem and that Josette was making a fuss about nothing.

#23: Author: Polly, Location: Essex

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:29 pm
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I also have no idea if it existed then, but it is very difficult to get anything from the exam boards now! They generally don;t take much notice of anything that happened before, and only what affects a student on the day of the exam. It doesn't even really take any notice of students being affected suring coursework - only reason I know this is that I had a student in this situation last year, and the exam board gave no leeway. I won't mention who they are as I work for them as an examiner! Wink

#24: Author: Mrs Redboots, Location: London, UK

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:14 pm
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jennifer wrote:

When I reread the Tyrol books, I noticed that Joey misses an awful lot of school due to illness - a week here, two weeks there, a significant fraction of a term in Rivals.

But people did back then. I was reading someone's wartime diaries, and it was amazing the amount of time she spent in bed - even if she just had a cold she'd be in bed for several days, and then maybe up but staying in her bedroom for another day.

And even when I was little, if you were ill, you went to bed and stayed there for at least 24 hours after your temperature had gone down, and didn't go back to school for several days after that.

#25: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:33 pm
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I suppose it was all prior to widespread use of antibiotics, when any (now) minor infection could escalate to a deadly illness, and where passing said infection on to others was not done.

#26: Author: Nell, Location: London, England

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:25 am
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My dad apparently used to miss weeks of school in the winter when his asthma was bad and he was very young...he spent all his time in bed reading which is how he came across the chalet school.

#27: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:52 am
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Alison H wrote:

Do we ever get to hear about a full set of public exam results? The nearest I can think of is when we hear that Biddy O'Ryan's year group've passed their School Cert (or was it their Higher School Cert)? Would love to know what sort of results they actually got in general ... er, sometimes forget that these are "only" books and not RL ...

The last few books mention public exams. Jack Lambert gives Len a china cat as a good luck charm for her French (I think) exam.

#28: Author: Catrin, Location: Wirral (holidays), Oxford (term)

Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 9:54 am
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In Highland Twins there's a fairly thorough listing of exam results - but I can't remember who got them, so this might be the ones you mean, Alison

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