Chalet School Tragedy
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#1: Chalet School Tragedy Author: MiaLocation: London PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:11 am
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Which incidents in the series do people consider the most tragic, along the lines of Herr Goldmann, I suppose, or Jacynth's Auntie dying in part because she put off medical treatment to care for her niece? I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for, hence the total vagueness, but I know other people might have ideas..?

#2:  Author: BeeLocation: Canberra, Australia PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:07 am
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I thought it was really sad when Bette Rincini/di Bersetti's husband died while rock climbing. He left Bette a widow (she would only have been in her early 20s, and married a short time), as well as a little girl. I never thought that much of Bette, but for some reason that part really got to me - perhaps because she was always just a quiet, nice, likeable character, and one of the early prefects! It also struck me as one of the more realistic scenarios. And of course Robin's father also died in the same accident, which made it even more upsetting.

Bee xoxo

#3:  Author: Kathy_SLocation: midwestern US PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:38 am
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If I eliminate the victims of violence, Margot Venables is the one who stands out in my mind. She goes through so much, only to be killed off, without even letting Daisy say a proper goodbye.

#4:  Author: MaeveLocation: Romania PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:27 am
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The death of Jacynth's aunt is the most tear-jerking for me, partly, I think, because of the long letter she leaves for Jacynth -- and us -- to read. Put's a lump in one's throat. Sad

I find the death of the Princess Balbini (sp?) rather moving also -- poor little Maria, even if she was a holy terror.

#5:  Author: Laura VLocation: Czech Republic PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:27 am
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I find the bit in Excitments (?) which shows Matron coping with her sister's death quite moving Sad

#6:  Author: RoseClokeLocation: Camping in my housemate's room. Don't ask. PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:31 am
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I've just finished reading the transcript of 'Gay from China' and I bawled my way through it, which is so unusual for me. It certainly the first CS book that I've cried at. Maeve is right - it's a combination of the letter, and for me, the mistresses having that smash-up (although I didn't cry at that until Nell Wilson gave that little speech about how a part of would have died if the Abbess had Crying or Very sad )

*toddles off to re-read it and wallow in misery* Very Happy

#7:  Author: white_hartLocation: Oxford PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:59 am
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I find the story of Herr Marani very sad. And also the way Elisaveta not only loses all of her money when Belsornia is invaded during the War, but then loses her husband as well, and ends up having to take in washing to support her children. But then, there are a lot of very sad events offscreen in the War books, which is utterly realistic and one of the main reasons why I like those so much!

#8:  Author: Alison HLocation: Manchester PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:32 am
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I found the deaths of Elisaveta's husband and Bette's husband very sad, even though they both happened "off screen". Both just seemed to be gratuitous tragedies in that I didn't really see what purpose they served: there was no obvious storyline resulting from either death - apart from a vague mention of Bette and Robin helping each other through their grief.
Jacynth's auntie's death is also very sad, and poor Margot Venables's story is also sad.

The wartime events are obviously very sad - the deaths of Herr and Frau Goldmann and Herr Marani, and the deaths of several Old Girls' fiancés and Miss Durrant's husband and child. However, there had to be tragedies in wartime books, if that makes sense - although obviously it doesn't make them any the less sad. I feel particularly sorry for Gisela, who loses her father in such terrible circumstances and then also loses the baby she'd named after him.

#9:  Author: MiaLocation: London PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:55 pm
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Auntie's letter is a real tear-jerker..

It's also quite sad to think of Jockel and Rufus wandering Europe (though I've often thought it should have been Eigen, not Jockel).

I really like the way that EBD's tragedies are quite understated

#10:  Author: JayBLocation: SE England PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:10 pm
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If we're talking pointless tragedies, then the deaths of Clem's parents and of Roland and Doris Carey come to mind. None of those deaths served any plot purpose, while Herr Goldmann's, Vater Johan's and Herr Marani's did.

I think Margot's whole life was tragic - she lost three sons, which is hardly mentioned. It's a wonder Daisy grew up to be such a normal, happy person. (Primula was too young to remember any of it).

Miss Bubb's end is a tragedy in its way - not so much that she was ill, but that she was so poor, alone and friendless. And EBD does actually succeed in making us feel sympathy for her, having originally presented her as a fairly one-dimensional villain in Gay.

#11:  Author: MelLocation: UP NORTH PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:02 pm
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There are so many deaths and I agree some are gratuitous and serve no plot purpose, the death of the Herbert sister being one and the death of Her Laubach being another. Auntie's letter and Maria Marani's grief are very moving.

#12:  Author: TamzinLocation: Edinburgh PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:01 pm
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Alison H wrote:
I feel particularly sorry for Gisela, who loses her father in such terrible circumstances and then also loses the baby she'd named after him.


I always found that particular story almost unbearably poignant - it's irony at it's most evil. Poor Gisela - such a good person to face so much tragedy. Her father died at the hands of the Nazis in a way that left his family on tenterhooks for ages before suddenly being sent a package of ashes (imagine the horror of receiving that through the post); her baby son named for his grandfather dies; her little sister always so bright and vivacious and happy becomes more or less clinically depressed and then has a complete breakdown. In addition I'm sure Gisela had to provide lots of support to her mother while they waited for news of Herr Marani and then in the aftermath of his death as well.

#13:  Author: TaraLocation: Malvern, Worcestershire PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:42 pm
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And Herr Marani's character is so consistent. Earlier in the books, he's the one who can never be coaxed ('Herr Mensch could sometimes be coaxed; Herr Marani, never'), and that unbendable sense of right lasts throughout his life.
Mind you, I can't exactly see the staff in the concentration camps returning the ashes ...

One thing I think we forget is how much 'random' death there was in EBD's era. Something that always shocks me is in Gerry Goes to School, where EBD just casually mentions that 'X [identity concealed for those who haven't read it!]died in the night'. I think that was from diptheria or something, but there were so many of these illnesses that did just carry people off (including EBD's own brother, of course), and it was part of life in a way that's difficult for us to understand.

#14:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:36 am
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Tara wrote:
Mind you, I can't exactly see the staff in the concentration camps returning the ashes ...


Very true, it's almost certainly impossible. Instead the family would have been presented with a bill for the bullet that killed him and the cost of his (mass) burial. Probably also for the time spent in German custody.

However don't forget that what we take for granted in terms of what the Nazis did was totally unknown to EBD. She had to juggle the worst of her imaginings with what a child could accept and that was her solution.

#15:  Author: LizzieCLocation: Canterbury, UK PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:07 am
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Please don't quote me on this because I have only a very fuzzy memory of seeing this on some History Channel documentary or other, but at the stage we are talking about it's possible that something like the return of his ashes, or at least the notification of his death did happen. It's before the Nazi killing machine really got going and though there were a lot of deaths those of political prisoners (such as Herr Marani) would usually have resulted in his family being informed at some point. I'm also fairly sure that some families did get the ashes back, but it's early and I can't find any sources to back up my belief at present.

#16:  Author: LottieLocation: Humphrey's Corner PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:08 am
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I think Jacynth's letter from Auntie in Gay is probably the saddest scene, but I think Rosamund Sefton's death in Coming of Age is sad too, and also Cornelia's reaction to Mlle's death in Exile. I think Jo's reaction to the telegram about Jack in Highland Twins is just a bit OTT, rather than really sad.

#17:  Author: MiaLocation: London PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:47 am
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KB wrote:
However don't forget that what we take for granted in terms of what the Nazis did was totally unknown to EBD. She had to juggle the worst of her imaginings with what a child could accept and that was her solution.


I don't think she, or anyone, was entirely ignorant. A lot of refugees reported on this. I know the Communist Party of GB had very detailed records of what was happening. Some of it was dismissed as socialist propaganda of course.

LizzieC, you are right, they did do this for political prisoners during the first stages of the war, it was a way of punishing the families. They got them in a cardboard box with a swastika on them. So horrible. They have an example in a museum in Prague I visited. IIRC correctly it was brought out of Germany to show people.

#18:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:23 pm
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The one that I think might be the saddest of all is one that doesn't actually happen in the books, we only hear about it. It's Bill talks about her family to Jacynth and basically her entire family died in like a year! Crying or Very sad The other one that I think is really sad is Miss A talking about how her mother died without her even knowing that she was ill, and the first she knew about it was when her brother came to collect her. Crying or Very sad

The death of Princess Balbini is really sad too, particularly when you look at how rubbish a dad the Prince is. And Auntie's death in Gay is also very sad, IMO that's some of EBD's best writing. I always thought Bette's husband's death was very sad as well, particularly as she ends up in Canada working as a housekeeper - completely alienated from everything she grew up with. The deaths at the hands of the Nazis are of course very sad - it's worse because it's true. As is the death of Miss Durrant's little girl in an air raid.

Like Tara it always strikes me how common death is in the CS, it might seem a bit overdone but it's not really when you think that they didn't have the medicines they do now, nor the same quality of emergency treatment.

#19:  Author: CarysLocation: London PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:45 pm
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The first time I cried over a CS book was finding out that Melanie's Auntie, Jeanne former CS prefect who's surname escapes me, drowned during the war along with Melanie's elder brother, who was then a toddler. Crying or Very sad

#20:  Author: ArielLocation: Glorious Hither Green, London PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:12 pm
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Jeanne le Cadoulec?

#21:  Author: Hannah-LouLocation: Glasgow PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:23 pm
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I think Mary-Lou trying to work out how she should behave when she hears of the death of her father is poignant. And, although no-one else seems to think much of it, the point when Jack "dies" in Highland Twins is the only bit in any CS book I've cried at. Not sure now if it was when Jo received the telegram, or when Fiona (Flora?) told her Jack was still alive, but something in that bit made me cry. And I always thought Maria Balbini not getting to say goodbye was awful. And Grizel losing the last letter from her Gran. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

#22:  Author: MaeveLocation: Romania PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:40 pm
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I'd forgotten about Grizel's letter -- that was awful. Crying or Very sad And she managed to be, or felt she had to be, so off-hand about it because of the whole Deira feud, so she couldn't even have a proper cry over it -- I thought that made it even sadder.

Last edited by Maeve on Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

#23:  Author: RosieLocation: Land of Three-Quarters Sky PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:10 pm
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I think the diptheria is in A Head Girl's Difficulties and it always makes me well up too. It's just so sad.

#24:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:55 pm
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Oh, yes, Grizel losing the letter was awful. Deira must have felt terrible too. Crying or Very sad

And I always think Jack's 'death' is sad too - something about the way Daisy and Robin respond that is just so natural and poignant. And Jem saying 'I was selfishly thinking of my own loss' - so stiff upper lip! I think it's really well written.

#25:  Author: JustJenLocation: at a baseball game PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:08 pm
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I thought Clem losing both her parents while she was in school was sad.
I also felt bad for Biddy as well. She loses both her parents, runs away from the orphanage and some how ends up in Tirol. I shudder at the thought of a ten year child wandering around Europe by herself.

#26:  Author: LizzieCLocation: Canterbury, UK PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:36 pm
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Can someone remind me in which book Clem loses her parents and how it happens? I don't seem to remember it Sad

#27:  Author: ArielLocation: Glorious Hither Green, London PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:03 pm
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I may be wrong, but isn't it one of those events that isn't written about, just referred to later? I think they drowned in Africa though.

#28:  Author: macyroseLocation: Great White North (Canada) PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:23 pm
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I think the deaths of Herr and Frau Goldmann, Vater Johann and Herr Marani are the most tragic since they presage the horrors of WWII and the Holocaust. Also extremely sad are Jacynth's Aunt's death and her last letter, all the child deaths of diptheria in A Head Girl's Difficulties and Jose's kitten having to be put down in the same book (I know how sad it is to lose a beloved pet).

#29:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:30 pm
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Cazx wrote:
The first time I cried over a CS book was finding out that Melanie's Auntie, Jeanne former CS prefect who's surname escapes me, drowned during the war along with Melanie's elder brother, who was then a toddler. Crying or Very sad


I don't think there's any evidence that Melanie's brother drowned with Jeanne le Cadoulec. This is the quote from Future:

Quote:
“I had an Aunt Jeanne le Cadoulec, but I never knew her. She dies before I was born. She was going to America and the ship was lost and a good many people were drowned. She was one of them,” Mélanie spoke reluctantly.
Joey was on her feet, her hands on the slim shoulders, her eyes gazing down into the sea-blue ones raised to her. “I thought there was something familiar about you. I should have known those eyes of yours. They are exactly Jeanne’s eyes. And you have her mouth and that little trick with your hands. How could I have been so blind? Of course you’re like Jeanne in lots of ways.”
“We did wonder before we first met her,” Len cried. “Don’t you remember?”
“I do. Mélanie, what is your mother’s name?”
“Marie-Mélanie-Thérèse Lucas. And I am Marie-Mélanie-Jeanne Lucas. Did you really know Tante Jeanne? Maman will never talk about that time because it was all so dreadful. You see, I had a brother older than me and he died at that time. He was three years old and Maman was terribly upset. I did just know I had a Tante Jeanne, but that’s all.”
Joey nodded. “I remember that Jeanne used to talk of her eldest sister Mélanie, but somehow I got the idea that she’d entered religion.”
“That was Tante Yvonne. Maman was the eldest and then there were Pierre and Yvonne. And then two more brothers who were with the Free French and died. My Uncle Gaston died when he was seventeen and the Château was burned down in air-raids and so Maman hates even to think of that time and you can’t blame her.”


While it may have happened that the brother did die with Jeanne, there's no way you can say for sure that that happened. It also seems a little unlikely that Jeanne would be taking a three-year-old across to America and the rest of the family would come some other way. Particularly as it sounds like the rest of the family stays in Europe for the brothers to fight with the Free French.

#30:  Author: RóisínLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:54 pm
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There are lots of tragedies, but in terms of what makes me physically cry, every time ( Embarassed ) there is just Jack's 'death' and Jacynth's Aunt's letter. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

#31:  Author: LizzieCLocation: Canterbury, UK PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:52 am
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KB wrote:
While it may have happened that the brother did die with Jeanne, there's no way you can say for sure that that happened. It also seems a little unlikely that Jeanne would be taking a three-year-old across to America and the rest of the family would come some other way. Particularly as it sounds like the rest of the family stays in Europe for the brothers to fight with the Free French.


I suppose not, but it did happen, even in England with the sea-vacuees. Lots of children were sent to the Empire and America without their parents and there were children lost that way unfortunately, especially on the SS City of Benares Sad

The books I've read on the subject suggest that the parents were so worried about what was going to happen in Britain, especially invasion which seemed a real possibility after the fall of France that they just wanted their children away and safe from whatever may happen.

I agree the quote is ambiguous, but I don't think it's totally beyond the realms of possibility that EBD intended to mean that Jeanne had taken the toddler with her.

#32:  Author: Fiona McLocation: Bendigo, Australia PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:44 pm
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I just took it as Melanie's brother died around the same time not with Jeanne, so there were two deaths together but in two different places.

One of the most tragic for me was Wanda. She goes to America after her parents die with her sister, her husband goes missing for a good 12-18months or so, while she's away and then she has two children that die. I think that's so sad Sad

#33:  Author: FatimaLocation: Sunny Qatar PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:16 pm
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Auntie's letter to Jacynth is the bit that always gets me, and then the deaths of the Goldmanns and Vater Johann; however, I'm also saddened by the death of Suzanne Mercier and her baby.

#34:  Author: Mrs RedbootsLocation: London, UK PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 7:07 pm
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The bit that gets me, every time, is when they think Joey is dying in "Rivals". Yes, I know it's overdone and sentimental, but....

And yes, I agree, Auntie's letter and Jack's "death".....

#35:  Author: Loryat PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 12:18 pm
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I can't believe no-one else has mentioned Bill and Miss A's tragic pasts! Was it just me who found them sad???

#36:  Author: Sarah_KLocation: St Albans PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 12:51 pm
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A lot of the stuff in the war books upsets me:
The deaths of the Goldmanns and Vater Johann, the Marani family as a whole, nearly losing Jack (and actually poor Fiona and Flora losing their brother) etc.

Outside of that it's hard for me to think of bits that really got me teary though now I've read the HB version the death of Mary-Lou's father really got to me with her mother being so brave.

#37:  Author: LexiLocation: Liverpool PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 1:01 pm
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The whole section about Auntie's death in Gay makes me weep Crying or Very sad Jacynth is one of my favourite characters and it's just so sad.

I think I get upset when I think of the consequences of Jack dying rather than by the actual piece of writing - my brain always goes off on tangents and starts imagining Joey's life without him in the rest of the series. I think the reactions of Robin, Daisy, Madge and particularly Jem are really well done though, it's just Joey who annoys me!



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