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#1: Anne Seymour Author: Laura V, Location: Czech Republic

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:07 pm
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Is it me or does she change from being quite sensible to rather empty headed?

#2: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:02 pm
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I suppose she does Laughing

. She starts off by being described as "charming" and she does seem quite sensible, but then we see her doing slightly daft things like trying to pick flowers on a cliff edge and leaving the iron on!

#3: Author: Róisín, Location: Gaillimh

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:33 pm
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But then switches back again? I think she only did a couple of daft things, definitely not enough daft things to stop her being HG anyhow.

#4: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:42 pm
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I always remember her being described as "pretty Anne Seymour" - a description which irritates me hugely!

#5: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:34 pm
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Róisín wrote:

But then switches back again? I think she only did a couple of daft things, definitely not enough daft things to stop her being HG anyhow.

Especially considering the daft things that Joey did, for example... or Elizabeth Arnett!

I can't warm to Anne Seymour though - maybe because EBD doesn't like her. Do we need a drabble to change this? Very Happy

#6: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:52 pm
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Kate wrote:

I can't warm to Anne Seymour though - maybe because EBD doesn't like her. Do we need a drabble to change this? Very Happy

Are you volunteering Kate? Wink

#7: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:55 pm
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Nooooooo! Shocked

*passes it on*

#8: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:19 pm
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I always liked Anne. I think EBD was hard on her several times. First in Eustacia when she missed the trip to the glacier because someone had to babysit the Robin, because Joey had to see the glacier. I wonder what Anne's parents thought of that, since they'd presumably paid for her to go on the trip so that she could see the glacier. And it was a lot of responsibility, leaving a girl of fifteen or sixteen in sole charge of a child known to be frail.

Then there's the time when Jo is fooling about and Anne asks for quiet because she's trying to work, and Jo is all offended because she's head girl and not to be spoken to like that.

Then, as already mentioned, she was passed over for head girl, although she did nothing as bad as Grizel's exploit in Head Girl.

Yet to me Anne always seems a nice, friendly, kindhearted girl.

Jay B.

#9: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:45 am
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That's always seemed really unfair to me as well. Grizel is not demoted, even after running away (although that didn't occur on school time). Joey plays childish pranks on the middles while a prefect, is completely out of it when she's worried about the Robin (while head girl) and is by no stretch of the imagination a steady, thoughtful personality even while head girl.

Anne is generally described as a pretty, charming girl who seems quite responsible - but she is demoted from being Head Girl for picking some flowers in the wrong place and falling, and is told about the demotion.

Oh yes, and she tells Joey to shut up so she can study, and Joey goes off in a sulk over it - which was not tactful on Anne's part, but seems downright babyish on Joey's. Okay, so Joey isn't happy about leaving school, but that doesn't give her the right to disrupt other people's exam study and then use her position as head girl to shun them for daring to talk back to her.

My theory is that it was being rude to Joey, not the other incidents, that meant she had to be demoted.

#10: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:09 am
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Was she actually demoted or did EBD just forget about her?

#11: Author: Róisín, Location: Gaillimh

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:19 am
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I think she was just 'promising' as the next head girl, but that went out the window when she argued with Joey. (I was totally on Anne's side in that one.)

#12: Anne Seymour Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:00 am
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Quote:

Then there's the time when Jo is fooling about and Anne asks for quiet because she's trying to work, and Jo is all offended because she's head girl and not to be spoken to like that.

I found Joey could be extremely childish like that and despite being decribed as not being swollen headed or conceited find that she can be very much a madam at time. It's alright if she does it but no one else can, kind of attitude, especially in the CS at Camp. She really irritated me then. She's rude to Grizel, simply because Grizel refused to be bated, makes snide comments about food being passed to her (Joey says do you think the roll will come if I whistle to it and Marie apologizes for not passing it) and teases everyone but when they tease back she gets snotty. Anyway, I always liked Anne and didn't realize she had been in the running, which is pretty mean on Madge's part to demote her like that when she didn't with Grizel. Mind you, niether Louise Redmond nor Anne Seymour would have been my choice. I thought Margia or Elsie would have been more logical. They were the obvious leaders.

#13: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:45 am
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The line is in the hardback of Jo Returns,

Quote:

She was seated in the head-girl's chair, next to her own chum,
Anne Seymour. Anne should really have held the position, but a wild
escapade during the previous term had resulted in her being set aside,
her friend being chosen instead.

Anne herself acknowledged that she had got no more than her due,
and she sat beside Louise without a thought of envy in her heart.

Joey gets away with a lot, just for being Joey, the way Mary-Lou gets away with a lot, just for being Mary-Lou.

I think it is true that Joey is somewhat spoiled, but in a specialised way. Her sister is the head and she's been used to being part of all the family councils, and once the school has been formed she is used to having inside information about what is going on. She is naturally gregarious and charming, which, combined with her privileged position in the school, means that she is generally looked up to by the other girls and is always at the centre of whatever is going on. So basically, if people accept that she's special and important and treat her accordingly, she gets on really well with them. When someone *doesn't* respect her specialness, she reacts very badly to them.

Grizel, who gives Joey no particular deference, tends to clash with Joey. Eustacia and Joyce don't immediately take to her, and again, Joey gets on quite badly with them - I certainly don't see much evidence of superiour understanding and empathy where they are involved. Matrons Webb and Besley, as well, see her as having an unduly elevated position in the school, and again, major conflict. The incident with Anne is along the same lines - Anne speaks to her as she would any other classmate who was irritating her, and Joey goes off in a snit.

Once she's an adult, absolutely everyone likes her on sight, and she is always privy to the inside scoop on school arrangements and the family situations and backgrounds of all the students as well as their school antics, so she's sweetness and light to everyone.

#14: Re: Anne Seymour Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am
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Fiona wrote:

I thought Margia or Elsie would have been more logical. They were the obvious leaders.

Margia and Elsie were really too young at that point. They were only in Upper V in Lintons whereas Louise and Anne were both in the Sixth.

#15: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:49 am
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They were sixteen though, weren't they? The same age as Joey when she was made Head Girl.

#16: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:08 am
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But you can't simply bypass older girls as if they had never existed!

#17: Anne Seymour Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:17 am
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Vanna had been bypassed and she had been a prefect longer than any of the others. She was prefect in Head Girl and was still there in New House. So age doesn't seem to be an issue

#18: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:22 am
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And EBD does it later - isn't Jacynth very young for Head Girl? And Len is Head Girl for almost two years.

#19: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:22 am
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Anne and Louise are sixteen in New House, as are Luigia Meracini, Arda van der Windt and Paula von Rothenfels (mind you, Anne is 17 in Lintons). Margia and Elsie are only 15 just turning sixteen at this point, and Margia is specialising as music, which would preclude being head - they would be the right age the following year, when Gillian is head girl.

Paula von Rothenfels would have been an interesting choice as headgirl, however.

#20: Author: Róisín, Location: Gaillimh

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:39 am
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And wasn't Peggy Bettany much younger too? (than her co-prefects).

#21: Author: Lottie, Location: Humphrey's Corner

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:15 am
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Yet I seem to remember that Loveday was appointed the following year simply because she was the oldest, but perhaps it was only because she was deemed suitable anyway.

At least they put some thought into choosing the Head Girl. I remember reading a book by (I think) Angela Brazil where the person who was top of the form academically, at the end of the previous year, automatically became Head Girl! Rolling Eyes

#22: Author: Mia, Location: London

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:37 am
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jennifer wrote:

Anne speaks to her as she would any other classmate who was irritating her, and Joey goes off in a snit.

I always assumed the point of Joey's problem with Anne was indeed that Anne had spoken to her like any other member of the form - but she wasn't, she was Head Girl. Anne shouldn't really have spoken to her like that especially in front of the others so I can see why Jo was offended, though it was a little bit precious of her. I wouldn't be, but EBD would perhaps see authority in a different way.

Perhaps Anne was just the easiest character for EBD to change to suit her plot reasons?

#23: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:04 am
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But Jo never shows Grizel, for example, any extra respect when she's Head Girl, or even when she's about to join the school as a mistress. And Anne does have a good reason for complaining, in that Jo was interrupting her work. (Was it officially prep time? I can't remember.)

It might have been different if Jo had had her Head Girl hat on at the time, but she didn't. She was just a girl who was annoying her classmate, and she used her status to get away with bad behaviour, imo. It does seem at times that there is one rule for Jo and one rule for everyone else.

I suppose because Jo is the central character and EBD's favourite, the reader is supposed to approve when Jo gets special treatment. Or perhaps EBD identified with Jo so closely she didn't even notice that she was doing it.

Jay B.

#24: Author: Mia, Location: London

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:30 am
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JayB wrote:

Or perhaps EBD identified with Jo so closely she didn't even notice that she was doing it.

Possibly. Does Joey ever tease Grizel in front of others though or is it when they are alone or with people like Robin and Juliet who are family?
I'm just trying to see it from both sides..

#25: Anne Seymour Author: Fiona Mc, Location: Bendigo, Australia

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:47 am
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She does it at Camp quite a lot. Teases Juliet and when Grizel defends Juliet, Joey refers to her as my child etc in front of everyone and Joey gets into a snit because, Grizel refuses to rise and calls Joey child back. Even the mistresses are about to leap to Joey's defence. the stupid thing is I always liked Joey when I first read the books, but I always felt that she was pretty snotty or a bit of a Madam in that book, so much so I really didn't like her at all in the book. I think its wrong when all the mistresses leap to her defence all the time to the detriment of any other character. And I really don't like either Miss Stewert or Miss Nalder much because of it. I think it's hard on any one that isn't automatically charming and popular. Matron Besley certainly hit the nail on the head when she said Joey got away with a lot more being Madge's sister. I know Matron Webb said the same but she also was pretty horrible to a lot of other harmless charaters such as the Robin, so I tend to dismiss her a bit more. Out of all Joey's friends, I felt sorry for Simone cos she seem to like Joey the most and yet seems to be constantly punished/ostracized/excluded because she does like her so much. Penalised if you do and penalised if you don't

#26: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:30 pm
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Thanks, Fiona. I knew there was an incident in Camp, but I don't have the book to check the details. But I was sure someone else would.

Jay B.

#27: Author: Mia, Location: London

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:45 pm
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Thanks for the reference. I went to look for a Camp transcript but there isn't one! However I did find the original incident from New House - sorry it's quite long but I really think it does excuse Jo a little, it's not quite as black and white as saying she is expecting preferential treatment because of who she is, etc, she's just upset about having to leave school - though I do agree that EBD sacrifices Anne's character a little. Incidentally when I was searching for 'Anne' throughout the text there were lots of references to how she was earmarked for Games Prefect not Head Girl - not sure if she ever does become this? But it might explain why she didn't become HG?

(And Joey is rude to snub her later, I quite agree! - but Anne was tactless. 50/50 fault? Wink

)

Quote:

Sunday was a quiet day, only broken by attendance at the services; and with Monday cam the round of ordinary work. Exams were now looming ahead, so most people were thankful to settle down and study hard. On the exam results depended largely the removes for the coming year, so that even the middles, scared lest they should be left down, were to be found with books in their hands.
‘I’m sick of French, German, Italian, Spanish, history, geography—’
A cushion cut short Jo’s diatribe on the Thursday evening of that week.
‘You aren’t nearly as sick of them as we are of your voice!’ Anne Seymour assured her. ‘Go and put your head in a bag! If you don’t want to work, other people do!’
Simone, who was trying to cover a year’s work in one week, heaved a sigh of relief, stuck her fingers more firmly into her ears, and glued her attention to her Histoire de l’Europe. Vanna and Carla, struggling with the plays of Molière, never even looked up. Only Marie and Frieda smiled sympathetically at Jo, as she tossed the cushion aside, rose with much dignity, and left the prefects’ room where they were all working.
‘Jo is annoyed, Anne,’ said Sophie Hamel.
‘Can’t help it if she is,’ retorted Anne. ‘It’s all very well for her. She leaves at the end of this term. But I simply must have a decent showing!’
Later, however, when she had forgotten all about the little contretemps, she was startled to find that a pleasant remark of hers was snubbed by the Head Girl. Anne had merely said, looking at the sunset, ‘Alpengluck to-night! That means rain to-morrow. Well, the courts can do with it, Jo, can’t they? They’re beginning to crack all over with the heat.’
‘Indeed?’ was Jo’s only comment, as she moved away.
Anne stared after her in amazement. ‘What on earth’s the matter with Jo now?’ she demanded of the company present.
‘She’s made because of what you did and said before Abendessen,’ said Louise Redfield.
‘Jo made for a little thing like that! Oh, don’t’ be stupid!’
‘At the same time,’ said Frieda quietly, ‘it was not quite the thing from a sub-prefect to the Head Girl, Anne. If I were you, I would ask pardon for it.’
‘I’ll do no such thing!’ retorted Anne, up in arms at once. ‘If Jo Bettany likes to be such a baby about a little joke, she can just carry on! I’m not going to do anything about it.’
What Frieda knew, though she had no intention of saying it, was that Jo was feeling rather unhappy about it. As she had truly said, for most of the others there was definite work to do. Frieda herself was to go up to the Sonnalpe to help her sister-in-law, once Gisela Marani; for a little sister had come for small Natalie only a week ago, and Gisela’s hands would be full. Marie had her betrothal coming; Simone was going to the Sorbonne at the next semestre; Carla, Vanna, Sophie, Eva von Heiling, all had something awaiting them. Carla was to take up signing and go to Florence to study; Vanna, the only child of an invalid mother, would have plenty to do at home; Sophie had two small sister to whom she was to act governess for the next two years; and Eva had announced her intention of going to England to train as a kennel-maid, thus turning to advantage her undoubted influence over animals. Only Jo would find little to do. Her sister had an excellent nurse, and was engaging a young girl to take charge of the Bettany twins until they were old enough for school. There was her singing, of course; and her writing. But Jo felt that she would have no settled duties, and after the full, busy life she had led at school, she found the prospect very dull.

#28: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:22 pm
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Yes, do I think Anne could have asked more politely. But Jo could have been more considerate of, for example, Simone, who was also trying to study. And I think Jo's snubbing of Anne later wiped out any need for Anne to apologise.

As for the reasons behind Jo's behaviour; yes, she might be sad at leaving the school where's she's been so happy. But

Quote:

Jo felt that she would have no settled duties, and after the full, busy life she had led at school, she found the prospect very dull.

That's up to Jo, isn't it? She's been so protected by Madge and Jem, and has so strongly resisted growing up, that it doesn't seem to occur to her that she's on the verge of adulthood and that she can and should take control of her life. If she doesn't like the prospect before her, she should look for ways of improving it, instead of passively accepting it, then moping about it.

In fact, of course, Jo never really does take control of her own life.

Jay B.

#29: Author: Mia, Location: London

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:21 pm
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Yes, I agree Jo isn't a late c 20th heroine. I think EBD was born too early really.

*shoos away Anne bunnies*

#30: Author: Sarah_L, Location: Leeds

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:04 pm
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All the other girls had clear career paths to follow or specific roles at home. Why didn't Jo have something like that? She could have done English or history at university, or studied singing like Carla.

#31: Author: Katherine, Location: London, UK

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:10 pm
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Perhaps becasue EBD had decided that she would carry on with the series after Jo left but didn't want to lose her by sending her away?

#32: Author: Laura V, Location: Czech Republic

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:01 pm
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I think that it was likely that Margia wasn't chosen as head girl because of her music studies which would require a lot of work. Elsie was probably just seen as too irresponsible!

#33: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:06 pm
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Sarah_L wrote:

All the other girls had clear career paths to follow or specific roles at home. Why didn't Jo have something like that? She could have done English or history at university, or studied singing like Carla.

Jo likes history and seems to read quite widely, but she never comes across as 'a genuine student'. I can't see her studying at university, but I do think it would have done her all the good in the world to get away and have to stand on her own two feet.

EBD seems to have changed her mind about Jo's future a few times. First she was going to Belsornia. Then she wasn't going because she couldn't leave Madge with all the children. Then she's not needed to help with the children because Madge has such a good nurse.

I suppose in reality when the Belsornia idea came up EBD didn't know she'd still want to be writing about Jo when she was grown up. Then by the time Jo was about sixteen she'd got Jack lined up for her. (And the Belsornia idea might have seemed a bit out of date by then.) She had to fill in the time until Jo was old enough to marry, but she couldn't tie her down to a university course or career that would take her away from the Sonnalpe and Jack long term. Hence, I suppose, the trip to India.

Jay B.

#34: Author: serendipity, Location: Leeds, UK

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:31 am
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jennifer wrote:

Joey gets away with a lot, just for being Joey, the way Mary-Lou gets away with a lot, just for being Mary-Lou.

It does make you wonder what EBD's own school must have been like.....(the school she ran, rather than the school she went to)

#35: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:18 am
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I think Joey would have crashed and burned in a history course at university. Academically, she's very erratic. If she likes a subject, she does very well at it, if she isn't of it she not only does badly at it but is disruptive - she's permanently flung out of art class for being obnoxious, and is pitched out of science in her last year for incompetence as well. I think her history interest is more in storytelling than analysis. She has a good imagination and gets lost in the romance of the stories but I'm not sure how well she'd do at an analytic essay.

She's also really used to being the centre of attention and having everyone know her and look up to her, so the social shock of going from being Madge's daughter, the pet of the mistresses and the beloved headgirl to one of a crowd of first years would have flattened her.

The other options for well bred young girls now - I can't see her taking secretarial training or going for a nurse. The Belsornian plan wouldn't have worked - Joey doesn't have the temperment or background to be a lady in waiting, and I can't see her being a properly deferential servant of royalty. Getting a job in a shop or at a hotel would be beneath her.

I could have seen her going to Italy to seriously study her music, however - her voice is supposed to be very good, and a few years of living away from her family and doing serious vocal training would probably have done her a world of good.

#36: Author: Alison H, Location: Manchester

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:54 am
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(Sorry, this has got nothing to do with Anne Seymour!)

It's interesting that Simone, who is portrayed as being rather silly and immature during much of her time at school, is the only one of Joey's Quartette with a "career plan". Marie is engaged to a wealthy nobleman before she even leaves school, Frieda says that she "must" go home for a while - although there were no younger children at home, and the Mensches had a maid, so she can't really have been "needed" there and she could have done something else - and Jo just plans to hang around at Die Rosen.

Simone not only plans to do a course at a top university, but says - when they're all discussing the future with Mary Burnett - that she wants to help her parents financially, which is a very mature attitude for someone who was still only young.

#37: Author: Rosie, Location: Brest. Still amuses me...

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:47 am
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Simone is the only one who needs to work isn't she? The others all seem very well-off, in Joey's case once Jem comes onto the scene anyway!

#38: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:56 pm
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Was Anne Seymour actually intended to be HG and demoted, or did it just seem like she would be a shoe in for the next HG? I must say I never really saw her as HG material. I can't remember why, but there's something about her that always struct me as superficial. This makes her a realistic character actually, but one that I never warmed to.

As far as I can remember I think Anne and Joey's fight was made to happen so that it could then be dramatically resolved in Joey saving Anne's life. I think EBD should have made the fight a bit more serious for this to have any real impact, though. When I read the scene, the thing that really struck me was that Anne throws the pillow at Joey. IMO it's not so much what she says as her actions that Joey takes umbridge at. I woudn't like to have a pillow thrown at me either.

I think EBD took pains to make Joey a real person with visible flaws. She does this a lot less with her successors, Mary-Lou and Len. At least, we can all see Mary-Lou's flaws but no-one in the text seems to, and Len relly has none. We're repeatedly told that Len interferes with her sisters too much, when this doesn't really seem to be the case, so it doesn't come across as a real flaw, especially when at other times she is praised for similar behaviour (for example, her treatment of Charles in Joey and Co.)

#39: Author: jennifer, Location: Taiwan

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:08 pm
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Anne never really gets a description beyond begin a charming, pretty English girl. I get the impression of someone who is nice, but not particularly memorable.

I think there was a bit of a lull in that year. We have Joey's year, with the Quartet as central characters, and two years below her there's most of the Quintette, who are individually very strong characters, but in between we've got Anne and Louise and Luigia Meracini and Thora Helgerson, most of whom are pretty much filler characters.

#40: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:40 am
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I find it very interesting that everyone assumes it's the scene in the prefects room about the studying that is the reason Anne is not made Head Girl. I had always thought it was because she almost fell into the river and was drowned. After all, a girl of that age should have thought that what she was doing was dangerous and stupid, particularly as the speed of the water is so well described. If she is going to be so thoughtless, why should she get the position of Head Girl, particularly as younger girls could have imitated her. After all, it does say that:

Quote:

She knew that if she were caught she would get into trouble, so this may have accounted for what happened.

so clearly her actions were forbidden and she broke the rules. Even Grizel does not deliberately break school rules during term-time before she becomes Head Girl.

#41: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:22 am
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I have to agree with KB on this one. After all, the people who decide head girls wouldn't even have witnessed the Anne/Joey spat.

Although I like Anne, I'm afraid I think of her as a bit of a ditz. In addition to the above, there's the whole fire incident, albeit after Louise is HG. If I try really hard, I can imagine forgetting to unplug an iron after Matron specifically reminded me to do so. However, upending the thing every time you reposition the fabric is so automatic, that I can't fathom anyone leaving it flat.

#42: Author: Katherine, Location: London, UK

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:39 am
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I agree, a 'wild escapde' sounds like the water incident.

#43: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:04 pm
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Oh, I never thought the spat with Joey was the reason why Anne wasn't head girl. I just think it's one of a few occasions on which EBD was unfair to her.

Anne was thoughtless in the flower picking incident, but Grizel was downright disobedient to a mistress, even if it wasn't termtime, and caused all sorts of inconvenience - dragging the Robin around on unnecessary train journeys, for example - and Jo and the Robin knew about it. The Robin wasn't likely to copy it, but Jo did have a history of going off without permission, so this wasn't a good example to set her.

In Anne's defence in the iron incident, electric irons weren't universal in the 1930s. Perhaps Anne wasn't used to one, and that's why Matey reminded her to turn it off. Anne might have been used to an old fashioned flat iron, which would cool down when left.

But Anne does seem to have suffered a character transplant after Eustacia, because if she was so thoughtless then I can't imagine Miss Wilson or Jo considering her suitable to be left in charge of the Robin for the day.

Jay B.

#44: Author: Róisín, Location: Gaillimh

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:54 pm
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Ditto. I think it's made pretty clear that the reason Anne didn't get the headgirlship was because of the picking-flowers-over-the-edge incident.

#45: Author: Mel, Location: UP NORTH

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:19 pm
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In defence of Anne, isn't she the one who volunteers to stay with the Robin while the others go up to see the glacier (Madge's instructions by the way, that Jo must see it)

#46: Author: JayB, Location: SE England

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:47 pm
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Mel wrote:

In defence of Anne, isn't she the one who volunteers to stay with the Robin while the others go up to see the glacier (Madge's instructions by the way, that Jo must see it)

Yes, as I said above, she can't have been that thoughtless, if Miss Wilson and Jo thought she was a suitable person to look after the Robin. And she was certainly unselfish. But I do think it was unfair that someone had to miss out on the trip just so Jo could see the glacier. I wonder what Miss Wilson would have done if no-one had volunteered.

Jay B.

#47: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:05 pm
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I suppose it would have been unfair on Joey if she had missed out on the trip too, though. I think she would have sacrificed herself, which was why Madge made sure she would go.

Fortunately, everyone loves the Robin so there was no problem getting a babysitter!

#48: Author: Clare, Location: Liverpool

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:19 pm
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Loryat wrote:

Fortunately, everyone loves the Robin so there was no problem getting a babysitter!

For some reason I've just pictures Chaletians fighting over who gets to babysit and Anne was awarded it because she emerged the victor of an arm wrestle!

#49: Author: Caroline OSullivan, Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:30 pm
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Lorayat said

Quote:

I suppose it would have been unfair on Joey if she had missed out on the trip too, though. I think she would have sacrificed herself, which was why Madge made sure she would go.

Surely though Joey could have gone during the holidays as she lived relatively locally (compared to Anne living in England).

#50: Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:13 pm
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JayB wrote:

Mel wrote:

In defence of Anne, isn't she the one who volunteers to stay with the Robin while the others go up to see the glacier (Madge's instructions by the way, that Jo must see it)

I think the reason Madge was so specific about telling Joey to go on the glacier excursion, was that Joey had volunteered to stay back with Robin EVERY day of the trip. She does miss the walk up the Frohneben Alp, for example. But yes, it was extremely nice of Anne to be so quick to volunteer. Either that, or she knew about the 5:30 a.m. start. Laughing

Strictly speaking, neither of them was left "alone" with Robin, since Frau Blitzen was surely a responsible adult.

#51: Author: Mia, Location: London

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:12 pm
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Is this the incident at the Stubai Glacier where the girls are late coming back because of Bill's accident and Robin frets herself into illness because Joey isn't safe and accounted for? Well if Jo had stayed behind that would be a big chunk of plot sacrificed, wouldn't it? Confused

#52: Author: Jane, Location: Southampton

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:16 pm
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Funny, I'd always associated Anne's setting fire to the new hall as the reason for her demotion.

#53: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:04 pm
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But she'd already missed out then...Louise was HG.

#54: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:08 pm
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Sorry to double post, but I was just reading New House and in it Anne seems to being set up as the next Games Prefect. Where does the HG idea come from?

#55: Author: LizB, Location: Oxon, England

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:50 pm
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It's mentioned at the beginning of Jo Returns, but I think only in the hardback.

#56: Author: macyrose, Location: Great White North (Canada)

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:59 pm
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In Jo Returns it says about Anne:

Quote:

Louise felt rather diffident as to her ability to take Jo’s place; but those who had appointed her felt no doubt. She was seated in the head-girl’s chair, next to her own chum, Anne Seymour. Anne should really have held the position, but a wild escapade during the previous term had resulted in her being set aside, her friend being chosen instead.
Anne herself acknowledged that she had got no more than her due, and she sat beside Louise without a thought of envy in her hear, though now and then she wished she had kept her head last term.

Though in New House it says:

Quote:

‘It’s more than you look,’ observed Anne Seymour, a pretty English girl of almost seventeen, who was sub-prefect this term, and knew that she would probably be games prefect the next.

So perhaps the possiblity of Anne being Head Girl was an afterthought?

#57: Author: Kate, Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:12 pm
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I'm getting the feeling that she wasn't demoted because of the escapade, but rather she was ruled out, which is a little different. The wording of the explanation is a little unfortunate, but I don't really believe the CS mistresses would be so unfair as to disappoint someone like that, in what would be a relatively public way. It could be more that Anne knew she was in the running, but obviously didn't get it - and was attributing that in her own mind to the incident (possibly rightly) but it wasn't actually made explicit.

Rather than her being told she was going to be Head Girl next and then it was taken away, maybe it was more like she was just expecting to be (due to seniority or whatever else) but she was passed over. I don't think it was that the mistresses had made a decision that she should be HG and then changed their minds. I think it was that they hadn't made the decision between say, Anne and Louise, and this incident just made them think that Louise was more suitable.

#58: Author: Imogen,

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:18 am
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Anne was silly to leave the iron on but Louise was silly to go into the school after Jo's book. Maybe Anne is a bit quiet for HG?

#59: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:41 am
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Imogen wrote:

Anne was silly to leave the iron on but Louise was silly to go into the school after Jo's book. Maybe Anne is a bit quiet for HG?

That happened when Louise was already head Girl though. the incident in New House that's referred to is when Anne slipped when getting some water for her flowers when they were out - Joey rescued her. Something that was a complete accident and hardly enough to ban her from the Head Girl role - not with Joey as a role model anyway!

#60: Author: Loryat,

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:27 pm
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But wasn't she directly disobeying orders in getting the water, or something?

I think the whole thing was an after thought of EBD's, since all the way through New House Anne seems to expect to be the next Games Prefect. There is never (IIRC) any sign of her expecting to be HG. Think EBD was just rubbing it in that silly accidents have consequences.

#61: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:34 pm
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Perhaps it says differently in the hard back, but in the paperback there are no orders given one way or another with regard to what Anne does - yes it was rather stupid of her, but she didn't disobey anyone, didn't deliberately flout any orders. All she did was not think about the consequences of what she was doing, something Joey was guilty of on many occasions. It didn't seem enough to warrant preventing her from being Head Girl, not when you consider Joey and Grizel as role models. In a later book Peggy does disobey and places herself in mortal danger but there is never the chance she will lose her position as HG.

#62: Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:57 pm
—

Quote:

If she could wet her flowers, they would be so much fresher when she got home. Only she couldn't put them into the stream, because it was a wild little brook, and its fury might dash the blossoms to pieces. She must go to the rock wall which hemmed in the valley at the eastern side, and try to dabble them in th epool which she had noticed the water had made for itself just at the edge. Accordingly, she left the others and crossed to where the water swirled into the tiny basin, seeming to pause a moment before it hurled itself over to the rock beneath. It was not a safe thing to do, for the splashing of the water had made the rocks slippery, and there was a sheer drop of sevety or eighty feet below. But Anne reckoned nothing of that. She climbed up, and then bent down, clinging to the tiny parapet with one hand. She knew that if she were caught she would get into trouble, so this may have accounted for what happened. Or it may have been that she was wearing new sandals. However it came about, her foot sudden;y slipped. She shrieked, and clutched at the parapet; but it, like hre foothold, was slippery, and her clutching fingers slid off it. With another wild cry, echoed by one a little behind her, she fell. Merecifully, a fir-tree a little way down had found root-hold, and she crashed against its trunk. Grimly she grabbed it, and just succeeded in staying her fall. The tree was a young one, and she was not sure how its roots would bear the strain of her weight, for she was a well-built girl.
But help was at hand. Jo Bettany had heard her first scream, and, dropping her flowers, she rushd to the edge, and kneeling down, looked over.
"Hold on, Anne!" she called. "I'm coming!"
Before anyone had quite realised what had happened, she had wrenched off her sandals, and was standing on the slippery parapet, her toes gripping the tiny rough edges fo the rock with the prehensile grip of a monkey. Cautiously she lowered herself to another projection just below; and then, clinging with one hand and both knees and toes, she stooped down.
"Stretch up!" she called. "You can reach my hand, and help will be here soon."
Anne had recovered her head now. Moving cautiously in case she overbalanced, she reached up and her fingers met Joey's, and clung with firm "sailor's grip".
.....
.....
..Miss Wilson could see though the girls could not, that the little fir was beginning to wrench itself away from the rock wall. It would not hold much longer, and then, not only Anne, but Joey too, must be flung to a ledge far beneath.
.....

HB p 256/7/8

To my mind it reads that it was such a stupid thing to do that the staff shouldn't have needed to forbid it - and that Anne herself knew it was a dangerous thing to do. I don't know if it's mentioned in the PB, but at the end when they are rescued, the soles of Jo's feet are badly cut by the rocks.

#63: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:32 pm
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That's far more detail than in the paperback. Nothing about Anne knowing that she would be in trouble.

#64: Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:36 pm
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Lesley wrote:

That's far more detail than in the paperback. Nothing about Anne knowing that she would be in trouble.

It's listed as having minor, frequent cuts Rolling Eyes

and that must ahve been one of them. I think it's very clear from the HB how foolish she was - to go and hang off a 70 or 80 foot sheer drop is probably not the sort of thing aspiring head girls or even games prefects should really do.

The CBB -> Anything Else

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