A little bit of hypocrisy?
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#1: A little bit of hypocrisy? Author: NicciLocation: UK PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:50 pm


I was just thinking about how Joey used to comment on the tragic death of little Ralph? Maynard (the kid of the Maynards of Pretty Maids, I think). She frequently comments on the fact that it was disobedience that killed him, and his parents inability to keep him under control. Although she obviosuly doesn't mean this nastily, ie. as a slight on either the boy or the parents, does anyone ever point out to her that Jack and Jo's constant problem with Margot is pretty much the same? - afterall, on several occasions either nearly killed herself or others a a result of disobediance.

 


#2:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:50 pm


They wouldn't dare - Joey is perfect in the later books! Agree with you Nicci, a case of double standards there. After all, if Margot had died when she fell into the lake at Lucerne it could just as easily be said of her that it was continual disobeidience and the parents couldn't control her!

 


#3:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:37 pm


I do agree that it's hypocritical, but I think Margot was more obedient as a child than when she became a teenager, whereas Rolf, I believe, was a child when he was killed. BTW, one of my favourite scenes is the fight in Rescue, when we get to see Margot's baby rages. It's very realistic, particularly when Margot refuses at first to apologise. I think that she comes around to an apology faster than when she's older though.

 


#4:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:58 pm


I thought Rolf was 13 when he died? Don't ask me where I got that from!

 


#5:  Author: EllieLocation: Lincolnshire PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:59 pm


The same thing could be said to apply to Mike, though, after all, he could have been killed when he climbed up after the birds nest, and he could hardly be called obediant.

 


#6:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:17 pm


But Joey is Joey Also they didn't die (and any doctor etc saying that to Jo would probably be critising their boss's wife so unlikely to happen)

 


#7:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:21 pm


I always thought it showed Joey's more nasty side. She never seemed to have any sympathy for them, and so it comes across as a criticism of the way they brought up Rolf, which surely is also a criticism of the Maynard family. I wonder what Jack thought??

 


#8:  Author: Miss DiLocation: Newcastle, NSW PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:14 am


And perhaps because Joey never got on with Lydia she was more inclined to be critical? Still, imagine if Jack and Joey had had to go and live in the Maynard family home in the New Forrest...all those Swiss books could never have existed!

 


#9:  Author: patmacLocation: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:47 am


I think there is truth in what you say but EBD also says in Rescue : 'Mrs Robert Maynard could never forgive Jo for having four children all well and healthy while her own child, Rolf, had been killed as a little chap of thirteen through the disobedience she had never tried to control when he was tiny. The Major had been fond of his sister-in-law whom he had known as a schoolgirl and he was devoted to her babies. But his wife had made things difficult.' So it may have been Lydia's attitude to the children that Jo found difficult to cope with. I think there might well have been more to it as well, because she also has Jo comment when they are talking about what will happen after Bob dies : 'Lydia may not want to stay. She's never been fond of the Forest. She prefers London.' That made me wonder if Lydia was unhappy with her life in general. We don't know her background and I wondered if she came from London and discovered that she didn't like country life. I also wondered if she resented Jack becoming Bob's heir after Rolf died. It's one thing to prefer London but to be disinherited, so to speak could cause some severe sour grapes!

 


#10:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:56 pm


I think it depends on whether the property was entailed or not. If it was entailed, it had to go to the next male heir, so really, Lydia should have got busy again, if she could, to ensure that Jack would not inherit. There is another point, Pretty Maids seems to have been a big house, and with the war on, Lydia might have found it difficult to run and to keep warm with the wartime restrictions.

 


#11:  Author: LadyGuinevereLocation: Leicester PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:51 pm


I'm sure it mentions somewhere that Lydia was jealous of Jack being his brother's heir after Rolf's death. Unfortunately, I can only narrow it down to Exile, Goes To It and Highland Twins!! Smile ~LadyG

 


#12:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:05 pm


Yes, it's in Goes To It. ‘Joey won’t like that,’ said Miss Wilson shrewdly. ‘She loves her pretty home. And where will they go, Madge? Pretty Maids is out of the question now, I imagine.’ ‘Oh, quite impossible. If the old folk had been living, it would have been the obvious solution, for you know how they adored her, and she loved them dearly. But now that they are gone, and Mrs Robert and the Major are in possession, it’s out of the question, as you say. None of the Maynards have ever liked poor Lydia, and she is a most uncomfortable person, I admit. She has always resented the fact that, since Rolf’s death. Jack is his brother’s heir and since the coming of the Triplets, it’s been worse. Bob Maynard wrote a charming letter to Jo, but Lydia has taken no notice whatsoever.’ ‘Spite and jealousy!’ interjected a small, spare woman in nurse’s uniform, who sat near by. Madge Russell shook her head. ‘I think a good deal of it comes from poor little Rolf’s tragedy. You see, their doctor told Lydia that she had only herself to blame. If the boy had ever been taught obedience, the accident need not have happened. But Lydia gave in to him in every way, and Bob himself was too much away with his regiment to interfere. As it is, he disobeyed a direct command, and was killed.’ ‘Well, as things are today, Mrs Robert might have had to worry about him in one of the Services,’ observed Miss Wilson. ‘He’d have been nearly nineteen now, wouldn’t he? But Madge, it’s six years ago since it happened. Jack and Joey were both in Tirol at the time—Joey was at school! How can Mrs Robert vent it on them?’ ‘Because that’s Lydia Maynard all over,’ put in Miss Stewart. ‘She was at school with my sister Nancy, and Nance told me that if anything went wrong, Lydia always took it out on someone else.’

 


#13:  Author: claireLocation: South Wales PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:06 pm


I always took Lydia's jealousy of Jack being the heir as her actually hating the fact that Jack was next in line BECAUSE her son had died. Some women when they loose a child hate being around children or pregnant woman as they see it as a failure of their motherhood. If Lydia wanted to have another child and couldn't conceive it probably was hard being around a woman who not only gets pregnant at the drop of a hat but gets three at one shot. For those of you who have tried to conceive in the past, don't you remember that feeling of is it ever going to happen to you, the envy/jealousy of other women (you're happy for them but you want to have the same yourself). In Lydia's position she may well have thought 'I only had one child and I lost him, she has four and gets to keep them all - how fair is that?' I know one person who when I was pregnant with Conan said it wouldn't matter to me if I miscarried or he was stillborn as I already had children, whereas she'd never managed to have one live child.

 


#14:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:07 pm


claire wrote:
I know one person who when I was pregnant with Conan said it wouldn't matter to me if I miscarried or he was stillborn as I already had children, whereas she'd never managed to have one live child.
Shocked How very kind of her! Shocked

 


#15:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:58 pm


A charming thing to say. I don't think. Perhaps it was bitterness caused by longing for a child that made her say it, so I suppose we should feel sorry for her.

 


#16:  Author: LyanneLocation: Ipswich, England PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:25 pm


((Claire)) I had similar comments when i miscarried after Robert - 'It's all rigth, you've already got one' or 'well, you've had 1 baby, you can have more'. OK, we've got Aaron now, but it took 4 more miscarriages & a nasty gynacologist who wrote back to my GP saying he didn't think I'd ever had any miscarriages. Thinking about it, I can't remember anything in the books about people being busy & then not having babies - either they're having babies like rabbits, only have 1 or there are no babies. Suppose that was common in literature at the time EBD was starting to write & as she was writing for children she wouldn't have put such in.

 


#17:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:44 pm


What a horrible experience for you, Lyanne. hammer the nasty gynaecologist.

 


#18:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:26 pm


Lyanne - what a b*st*rd! How dare he say that - did he think you were making it up? Shocked

 


#19:  Author: JosieLocation: London PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:13 pm


Lesley wrote:
Lyanne - what a b*st*rd! How dare he say that - did he think you were making it up? Shocked
My thoughts exactly!!

 


#20:  Author: LyanneLocation: Ipswich, England PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:25 pm


Yup. He didn't say it to my face, though obviously you can tell. Just wrote it in the letter back to GP. My GP was not happy about it as he (GP) was brilliant & very sympathetic. The same gynacoloigist saw my friend who had then twins & then developed polycysitc ovaries so was having problems concieving again but had aminly been referred to him as she felt so ill. The charming man just asked her why he wanted any more children as she already had 2. (she went back to her GP, who referred her to another gynacolcigst, who helped get the pco under control, plus she now has a 13 month old son. But that's not the point.) Moral: if you are going to see a gynacologist, take a large & threatneing-looking friend with you (we hadn't)

 


#21:  Author: Guest PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:42 pm


Yep. Also if you are going to see (particularly a male) gynaecologist about PCOS, do NOT get fobbed off with the Pill and read up about it as much as you can!

 


#22:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:11 pm


Lyanne wrote:
Yup. He didn't say it to my face, though obviously you can tell. Just wrote it in the letter back to GP. My GP was not happy about it as he (GP) was brilliant & very sympathetic. The same gynacoloigist saw my friend who had then twins & then developed polycysitc ovaries so was having problems concieving again but had aminly been referred to him as she felt so ill. The charming man just asked her why he wanted any more children as she already had 2. (she went back to her GP, who referred her to another gynacolcigst, who helped get the pco under control, plus she now has a 13 month old son. But that's not the point.) Moral: if you are going to see a gynacologist, take a large & threatneing-looking friend with you (we hadn't)
Lyanne I think both you and your friend have definite grounds for complaint. That man has no business saying those things, he is definitely in the wrong profession.

 


#23:  Author: CazxLocation: Swansea/Bristol PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:07 am


From the quote in Goes to it, where it says Jo would have gone to pretty Maids if the old folks were still alive, is that an EBDism. I'm sure it says somewhere, possibly later in the series that Stephen as well as the trips would inheirit money from his Granny Maynard when he came of age.

 


#24:  Author: LesleyLocation: Allhallows, Kent PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:43 am


She could have left it to Jack's eldest son I suppose - even though he'd not been born at the time.

 


#25:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:54 pm


I wonder if she left it to the oldest male grandchild. That would have been Rolf, but of course he died, meaning that Stephen would get it. It sounds strange, but weider things have been willed.

 


#26:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:20 am


Was it definitely said she left it to him? Otherwise, maybe she'd actually left it to Jack but he'd decided to put aside her money for the children - in an account for them they can't touch til they're older? *clutches at straws*

 


#27:  Author: Helen CLocation: Sheffield/Luton PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:38 am


But then wouldn't it have been for all 11 of them.

 


#28:  Author: MiriamLocation: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:56 pm


Maybe she was still akive at the time of Stevens birth, but her husband had died. She might have moved out of Pretty Maids, so that the next generation could live there to manage the land etc, nad either have moved into some smaller house on the estate, requiring less managing, or moved into some form of sheltered accomodation (does anyone know how available such a thing would have been then?).
Quote:
If the old folk had been living, it would have been the obvious solution, for you know how they adored her, and she loved them dearly. But now that they are gone, and Mrs Robert and the Major are in possession, it’s out of the question, as you say
THe word gone in this cintext could have meant gone from the house, but not departed from this world.

 


#29:  Author: Helen CLocation: Sheffield/Luton PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:04 pm


yeah but their talking about them in the past tense.

 


#30:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:17 pm


Sounds pretty final that she had died to me!!! Perhaps money was left to Jack's eldest son? I did always feel sorry for the children born after though, seems unfair. A similarr thing happens when Robin leaves. She highlights some trinkets she wants to give to the girls but what about Cecil and Phil who have yet to be born?? Lets hope Joey still had a few things of Robin, which she could have passed onto Robin's goddaughter.

 


#31:  Author: JennieLocation: Cambridgeshire PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:51 pm


Perhaps she left the money in a trust fund for her grandchildren. they might all have benefitted. It's quite common to do that.

 


#32:  Author: Helen CLocation: Sheffield/Luton PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:23 pm


But it deffinatly says the money is for Stephen and the triplets.

 


#33:  Author: KateLocation: Ireland PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:42 pm


That seems quite a good theory, Claire. Although wouldn't it have gone to Jack first? But it seems the most plausible so far. As for my theory:
HelenC wrote:
But then wouldn't it have been for all 11 of them.
Not if Jack decided this before they were born... *shrugs* I don't know. It was just a guess.

 




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