Simone, Frieda & Marie
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#1: Simone, Frieda & Marie Author: Rachael PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:28 pm


The Quartet - please discuss Joey's 3 closest friends here: How do they develop thoughout the series? What do you think of their relationships with Joey and each other? Strengths? Faults? How do they rate as one of the many groups of friends in the series? Anything else?

 


#2:  Author: AlexLocation: Hunts, UK PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:28 pm


I think it is strange how they are declared to be great friends in New House, but before that I haven't really noticed any particular friendship between them as a group. They are all friends with Jo but not so much with each other.

 


#3:  Author: EllieLocation: Lincolnshire PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:39 pm


I think that because I read the books out of order, I was accustomed to the idea of the quatert before I read the earlier books and just took it for granted that they were all friends, although I definitely got the impression that Marie and Frieda were moer friendly with each other than either of them was with Simone.

 


#4:  Author: AnnLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:17 pm


I have to agree with the above - the comments about them all being such good friends in New House didn't quite seem to describe their relationship in the previous books. I always felt sorry for Simone as she always seemed to be less a part of the group than the others, presumably because of her obsession with Joey as a middle. In And Jo, for example, when all four are prefects, Joey tells Marie and Frieda about Jem's concerns for the Robin's health but neglects to tell Simone and tells the other two not to mention it to her because she 'doesn't want any scenes'. I can't help feeling this is rather unfair - Simone has learnt to control her feelings by this stage, yet the others don't give her any credit for it. I have to wonder whether Marie, Simone and Frieda would have become such close friends if Joey hadn't been around...

 


#5:  Author: patmacLocation: Yorkshire England PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:22 pm


I think in the early days, it was a common friendship with Joey that brought them together. Remember when Simone was jealous? Jo was quite adament that she would have any friends she chose. I think they were all 'nicely brought up' continental girls and Jo was the rather independent and exotic character who thrilled and scared them. Later, they seemed to gel as a foursome and it probably culminates in Rescue when they go on holiday together - though you still get the feeling that Jo is the glue that holds them together.

 


#6:  Author: Amanda MLocation: Wakefield PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:20 pm


I always liked 'the quartet' as they all seemd to have very distinctive characters.Simone did tend to annoy me at bits with her homesickness and adoration for Jo. Character wise, Simone was always portrayed as the highly-strung, obssessive type (especially with Jo), prone to random acts of wild behaviour. Frieda was 'The Peacemaker' and tended to live up to that reputation. Marie was 'beautiful, but not as beautiful as Wanda' and seemd to have her feet quite firmly planted on the ground. I feel out of all the characters Marie's was probably the less well developed. She married a baron and was seldom herad of again, in comparison to Frieda and Simone. I agree with some of what the others have said about them all becoming friends through Jo, although I think Frieda and Marie would probably have still been friends as their families knew each other from before. I'm not entirely sure if Simone would have become firm friends with Frieda and Marie without Jo there, or if she would have found a different group to be friendly with. Jo and Frieda have always, for me, been friends from the start - they were similar ages. Jo's first Christmas was also spent at Frieda's house. They were also close friends during the time of 'Rivals' when Jo was so seriously ill. During her recovery, it was Frieda, Marie and Simone that helped her with getting back at the Middles, so I don't necessarily agree that they weren't portrayed as close friends until 'New House' (my opinion only). As a group, they've always been my favourite, although the 'Quintette' come a close second. I like the way that EBD doesn't totally forget them, like she does some of the other old girls, and sees them through marriage, children, and those children going to the Chalet School. Star Wars

 


#7:  Author: MihiriLocation: surrey england PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:50 pm


I agree with both sets of comments about the closeness of their friendship so far! I think that there were scenes in earlier books that showed the four of them to be friends but that it was only in New House that it was obvious how close all 4 were. This could have been down to a number of reasons, perhaps it being their last term made them realise how much they would miss each other, or perhaps them being separated from the other prefects strengthened their friendships.

 


#8:  Author: jenniferLocation: Sunny California PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:29 pm


Simone's the one that made the strongest impression on me - although not necessarily a good one. The possessiveness and jealousy is not atypical for a 12 year old (although something that they should be carefully steered away from), but by age 16 or 17, as in Camp or Jo and, it's a bit much, particularly the way the staff tiptoes around it. She does seem to grow out of it later, maybe when she goes to university and is parted from her 'beloved Jo' Marie - well, she's pretty (but not as pretty as Wanda), good at games and not scholastically inclinded, and Frieda is obedient and a peacemaker. They sort of fade into the background as a bit of a Greek chorus for Joey. I also suspect Joey was the glue in that four-some - she's by far the most vivid personality, and the controlling force. They were probably good friends for her, though, being less likely to go along with some of her wilder ideas. I think that at the beginning, the school was dominated by pretty, quiet, well mannered, obedient continental girls, who were overshadowed, plot wise, by characters such as Joey, Grizel, Evadne, Margia and Cornelia, who were much more lively and apt to get into trouble. That said, it was nice to see their friendship continued over the years.

 


#9:  Author: PadoLocation: Connecticut, USA PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:10 am


Weren't Frieda and Marie assigned to the same room and described as a "colourless pair" in one of the early books? I think the notion was that one of them would take on a leadership role if separated from the more flamboyant personalities. BTW, I've always disliked EBD's description of some of the girls as "colourless." Maybe it's because I have a daughter who comes off as very shy and quiet (colourless?) at first impression, but when you take the time to get to know her, she's anything BUT. You'd think in a boarding school situation that SOMEONE would have taken the time to get to know the quiet ones.

 


#10: colourless Author: KirstieLocation: Ayrshire PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:52 am


EBD did have a tendency to put quieter girls down like that. I always liked the idea of the four going through school together and continuing to be friends as adults. I always considered them close friends having read the books all higgeldly-piggeldly. Jo was always the leader but the rest were allowed to hold their own occasionely.

 


#11:  Author: RuthLocation: Physically: Lincolnshire, England. Inwardly: The Scottish Highlands PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:38 am


Of the three I like Frieda the best. Simone is too Oh So Soppy for my taste - although I do like her. She does have a good character. Marie is rather to quiet for me although you get a different insight into her when she shakes Thekla von Stift!!! Frieda's character developes over the books from being quite shy until she can be Second Prefect alongside Jo. You see more of her after her marriage and I just love the meeting between her and Jo in the War when Frieda and Bruno (is it Bruno?) escape to England.

 


#12:  Author: CazxLocation: Swansea/Bristol PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:41 pm


When I was younger I liked Simone the best, maybe because she was shy and found it hard to make friends like me. I never actually liked Frieda then either, not sure why-may have been because I just didn't like the name Rolling Eyes Marie never really stood out to me when I first read the books, she always seemed to have been forgotten about by EBD. As they got older I liked them all, though it would have been nice if we got to see Marie in the same way that we saw Simone and Frieda towards the end of the series.

 


#13:  Author: AlexLocation: Hunts, UK PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:21 pm


Is it Simone who always gets sent to sleep at Le Petit Chalet when they need an extra bed? Why is that?

 


#14:  Author: MiriamLocation: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:17 pm


I don't know about 'always', but certainly in And Jo she is sent to sleep over at Le Petit Chalet when Madge realizes that she has misjudged the amount of boarders for the coming term. I've wondered why since there are others who (EDB allowing) seem to be younger than her. Margia semms settleled as a yaer or two younger, but there is never any mention of sending her. I've wondered if this was because she is always portrayed as emotionally immature, and this could have affected the general perception of her as much younger than she is. It could be that Madge felt she would get on better with younger girls than some of the others. I can't see Jo being happy at LPC, despite being the same age. I always felt Maries engagement seeemed rather sudden. Unless I have missed thiings that were cut out of the paperbacks, we have a report of the Baron noticing how prettyshe was after the boat race (and if all EBD says about her is true, he would have to be blind not to notice), and then a year later he is speaking to her father about getting engaged. I wonder if Ebd was unsure what to do with Marie when they were approaching the end of school. Jo and Simone had careers ahead of them (though I don't think we know so much about Frieda's plans), and Marie has no idea - until a rich husband turns up to carry her off. After that she pretty much dissapears - even when she is meant to arrive in Geurnsey we don't hear anything. SHe is the only one Jo doesn't visit on her journey to Switzerland, and only plays a small roll in Rescue and Coming of Age. The other two we have a much better ideas of, though I don't think EBD would have tracked their lives as she did, if they hadn't been Jo's friends. Simone matures immensly as she grows up, and I like her best when she appears as a teacher. While we see less of Frieda, she also seems to overcome her child hood problems of shyness, and what we do see of her adult life is very believable.

 


#15:  Author: KirstieLocation: Ayrshire PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:15 am


I was always thought that Simone appeared younger than the others because of the way EBD potrayed her as immature and liked her much better in the later books when she is a teacher. I liked Frieda the best when I was younger although I have no idea why. Do the paperbacks mix up Marie and Maria Mariani? I don't have any hardbacks of the early books.Also does anybody else get mixed up in the later books as to which children are whose between Wanda, Marie etc as they all have similar names and all seem to marry doctors and brothers of each other. I have only read some of the later books once and got quite confused at times.

 


#16:  Author: AllyLocation: Jack Maynard's Dressing Room!! PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:00 am


I wondered whether Simone got sent to Le petit Chalet because Madge realised her demands on Joey and wanted to give them both some space apart. I do think it was a good thing for someone matter of fact like Joey to know someone sentimental like Simone but the friendship still always seems one sided until we are suddenly told they have been part of the quartet for ages!! My favourite of the three is Frieda because we do see her developed more, certainly more than Marie as people have said. One (random) thing I cannot understand though is why she never visited the Tiernsee after the war when she had been living in Innsbruck for a while.

 


#17:  Author: francesnLocation: away with the faeries PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:31 am


I never really thought of them as a quartette until EBD actually starts referring to them as that. It always seemed that joey was friendly with everyone...although simone had her slightly obsessive attachment....but was always more friendly with frieda than the rest. but that may be entirely due to reading the 2nd book first where they all spend their christmas hols with the mensches. marie, i always felt, was more than slightly overshadowed by wanda. my theory is that EBD always favoured wanda over marie and consequently didn't do as much with marie as she could have (case in point: marie is married off to a baron and forgotten about but the von Gluck clan keep cropping up). in that sense i pitied marie - she was rather pushed to one side and you don't get the vivid portrait of her that you get of the other three. all in all i liked simone the least - wet, possessive and prone to mad selfish acts like cutting off her hair - and frieda the most as she really came into her own with her quiet self-control but her strong leadership and the steadying influence she has on jo. frieda was one of those people who (as my mother puts it) leads from behind and i liked her for that.

 


#18:  Author: Sarah_KLocation: St Albans/Leicester PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:23 pm


I like Frieda a lot, she was always one of my favourites in the early books. She seems to be a sensible girl and fits into the "well brought up continental girl" mould that EBD likes so much. Marie does too though I guess she is slightly less developed as a character. Then again there is her outburst at Thekla, I gained a lot more respect for her then, apparently she did have a temper Simone does tend to get the short straw early on, when I was reading the books for the first time I had a very clingy friend who Simone always reminded me of and so I tended not to be very sympathetic towards her. Now I can see that she wasn't always treated very fairly but still, I think Joey's brisk friendship was probably very good for her really, made her much more independant.

 


#19:  Author: Sarah_G-GLocation: Sheffield (termtime), ? any other time! PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:26 pm


I know she's supposed to be the same age, but right up until she's a teacher, I always think of Simone as younger than the others. I haven't read this part of the series for a while but her clinginess and sentimentality for Jo lasts for far too long to my mind- understandable, perhaps, in a very shy 12 year old who'd the only French person in the school for a time and isn't great at languages but I'm sure I remember Frieda and Marie combining to take her away form Jo for a walk in "Lintons" (?) because Gilllian wants to talk to Jo. How old are they by this point? Old enough, you'd think, that Simone would understand that Gillian wanted to talk to Jo alone if she was told, as the other 2 were. Similarly she isn't told about the fears for the Robin, I think. Until New House, I tend to see Jo being friendliest on her side with Frieda and then Marie, Frieda and Marie form a pair, and Simone being attatched to them partly through friendship but partly through the other 3 girls being too kind to say "your attatchment to Jo is strange, irritating and unwelcome. Stop it." They are all friends, but Simone seems to be the furthest out to me. They like her and are her friend but to some extent she is a 'problem' girl they all help out with. Like I said, I haven't read this part of the series for a while and feel free to disagree anyway, but this is more or less how I remember them before New House. Separately, I agree that Frieda is probably the best developed character of the 3 and I always liked her for being peacemaker and having a strength of character and kindness that always showed through without being overpowering. She's the kind of person I'd have liked to be friends with.

 


#20:  Author: SusanLocation: Carlisle PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:55 pm


There are actually EBDisms about the ages of the four. In the beginning I think Jo is older than Simone then later it changes I haven't my books handy to check but I know something is said at the time of the infamous hair cutting scene. Like others I have never really grasped the fact until New House that the four where seen as a quatrette. I'd always put their closeness at the time of the worry about Robin down to the fact that Marie and Frieda were among the longest serving pupils of the school and that Jo , Madge and Robin were personal friends of their families. Up until she became head Girl Jo seemed to friendler with Evadne and Margia and Co. As has been said Frieda is the most rounded of the three and Marie could have been a much more rounded character if she hadn't been pushed into the background. I always end up feeling sorry for Simone she is weepy clingy and all the rest of it but in New House she gets left to wash up and clear up whilst the others go and do dormitory rounds and in Recue she is always the one left looking after the house and kids whilst the rest go and visit Phoebe, I love the way we catch up with them throughout the Swiss years but wonder why they never met up more regularly given that they lived so near each other and didn't have the channel in between.

 


#21:  Author: VikkiLocation: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!! PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:58 pm


I've always thought of them as a quartette, but that's probably because New House was the first CS book I read, and that is where we first really see them as such. Although, now I think about it, there are some hints in earlier books, like Rivals where they play pranks on the middles, and in Jo of, where they sneak out to the ice carnival. (although they DO have Margia and Paula with them then.)

 


#22:  Author: LizBLocation: Oxon, England PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:42 pm


Ann wrote:
In And Jo, for example, when all four are prefects, Joey tells Marie and Frieda about Jem's concerns for the Robin's health but neglects to tell Simone and tells the other two not to mention it to her because she 'doesn't want any scenes'. I can't help feeling this is rather unfair - Simone has learnt to control her feelings by this stage, yet the others don't give her any credit for it.
I was looking something up in And Jo last night, and noticed that when Madge told Joey about their concerns for Robin Madge specifically says Jo can tell Frieda and Marie, but Simone is not mentioned. Liz

 




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