Maria Marani
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#1: Maria Marani Author: Rachael,  PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:56 am

Please discuss Maria here:

 

#2:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:38 pm

Maria is one of the most interesting characters, in my view, despite the fact that she seems to ride other characters' coattails. She begins auspiciously as the youngest pupil, only to be replaced by Amy Stephens (who is in turn replaced by Robin) and rather fades into the background as she works her way up the school. She gets mentioned in Jo of, Princess, Head Girl, Rivals and Eustacia without having any details given regarding her age or form. (Usually she only rates a mention because of Gisela.) She is in the Fourth in and Jo and then becomes a Senior. She becomes more interesting when Gisela fades from sight and is really thrown into the spotlight during Exile, at least rating a mention during most of the times that her father appears. She steps into the spotlight in her own right when she saves the one of the men in the burning plane and, with her injuries and the terrible stress of her father's disappearance, has a nervous breakdown. (I say nothing about this being a mere vehicle for Joey to miraculously save someone again with that highly useful little ditty, The Red Sarafan...) It would have been fascinating to see the book between Exile and Goes To It, to see how Maria recovered and what happened to her. Her father's death is the first death of a character who has been such a central figure until that time. It is also a useful insight into knowing how much EBD knew or guessed about the Nazi concentration camps. I am always disappointed that EBD brought Maria back only to become Joey's children's nanny. I almost wonder if it was felt that Maria owed Joey something for saving her from a complete breakdown. I was much happier when Maria was allowed to marry Walter Maclaren and have her own child (Wins the Trick).

 

#3:  Author: jennifer, Location: Sunny California PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:05 pm

I like Maria too, although she does fade into the background most of the time. I find it interesting that Maria is one of the few characters who is, in some ways, allowed to grieve normally, and have long terms effects from a loss. She has to flee from her homeland, and her father is missing in a concentration camp. She's made head girl in a foreign country, and is involved in an accident, basically bringing on a nervous breakdown, and then finds out her father is dead. Years afterwards, she's still described as rather solemn and sad. Robin's father and only living relative is killed mountaineering, and she seems to adapt without too many problems. Daisy is mentioned missing her mother badly, but is still a cheerfully irrepressible girl. Jacynth loses her only living relative, and is essentially told to keep a stiff upper lip and stop crying.

 

#4:  Author: Pado, Location: Connecticut, USA PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:44 am

I've always been confused by EBD's explanation of how to pronounce Maria's name, because I'd only ever heard it as Mar-EEE-a. Is it pronounced Mar-EYE-a (like Mariah Carey?) in England?

 

#5:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:50 am

I think the English use Mar-i-ah and the Europeans Mar-ee-ah. Most European languages would find the first pronunciation more difficult and so use the second, which conforms to other sounds in many of their languages, particularly French and German.

 

#6:  Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:11 pm

jennifer wrote:
I find it interesting that Maria is one of the few characters who is, in some ways, allowed to grieve normally, and have long terms effects from a loss. Robin's father and only living relative is killed mountaineering, and she seems to adapt without too many problems. Daisy is mentioned missing her mother badly, but is still a cheerfully irrepressible girl. Jacynth loses her only living relative, and is essentially told to keep a stiff upper lip and stop crying.
I'm not sure those other girls get over things *so* easily. Robin, in particular, is always described as graver than the other girls, right the way through the Plas Howell books. F'rinstance:
Quote:
From Lavender, when Lois and Jesanne try to predict what Joey will look like from reading her books: But she had little time for it, for the Sixth, having seen the effect she had on the newcomers, broke into shrieks of laughter, even Robin and Lorenz, who were graver as a rule than the rest, joining them.
Jacynth, too, is generally described as a solemn, serious girl and seems older than her years - in contrast to Gay's levity. Possibly the real difference is that Maria had a happy carefree existence until the War and everything going horribly wrong, whereas Robin, Daisy and Jacynth, to various extents, had unhappy lifes all the way through (Rob's mother, Daisy's brothers and father, Jacynth's orphan status, poverty and general struggle). Therefore, perhaps the shock Maria experienced was worse because she was less conditioned to it, and the others were more able to cope stoically with their losses. I don't think you can say any of them were unaffected, though. Caroline.

 

#7:  Author: Sarah_L, Location: Leeds PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:15 am

KB wrote:
I think the English use Mar-i-ah and the Europeans Mar-ee-ah. Most European languages would find the first pronunciation more difficult and so use the second, which conforms to other sounds in many of their languages, particularly French and German.
My gran, who was born in 1920, was called Maria. Whilst we all pronounced it as is common in England nowadays (Mar-ee-a), her sisters called her Ria (Rye-a). This suggests to me that the English pronounciation in about the first half of the 1900s was Mar-i-a and it has gradually changed to Mar-ee-a.

 

#8:  Author: Kat, Location: Swansea PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:09 pm

Ahem - Scotland and Wales anyone?

If you mean England, fine - if you mean the UK/Britain then please say so!



Back on topic though!

I've only known it as Mar-ee-a here in the UK - the only time I've heard Mar-eye-a is as Mariah Carey. Can't think of any other instance in which I've heard it - maybe it's down to personal preference on how you pronouce it?

 

#9:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:21 pm

If I specify English-speakers, will that do you?

 

#10:  Author: Kat, Location: Swansea PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:22 pm

Yup, perfectly!

Thanks KB Kiss

(Sorry, but you know how patriotic I am!! Wink )

 

#11:  Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:16 am

*lol* I do indeed! But now I've upset English speakers who don't pronounce the name that way! Crying or Very sad

 

#12:  Author: Rachael,  PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:07 am

Sarah_L wrote:
This suggests to me that the English pronounciation in about the first half of the 1900s was Mar-i-a and it has gradually changed to Mar-ee-a.


Definitely - remember (not that I do - more history, really!) those old police cars were known as Black Mar-i-as

 

#13:  Author: Kat, Location: Swansea PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:12 pm

KB wrote:
*lol* I do indeed! But now I've upset English speakers who don't pronounce the name that way! Crying or Very sad


Hehe tongue

*Hugs* Never mind - I think they'll blame me not you!

 

#14:  Author: Kathy_S, Location: midwestern US PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:59 pm

Ma-ree-a is definitely the normal pronunciation in my experience, where Marias are a dime a dozen. Of course it may be the Ave Maria influence given my background. Never heard anyone say Ave Ma-rye-ah!

In fact, my ONLY experience of the Ma-rye-ah pronunciation is in the song from "Paint your Wagon," which we carefully wrote as "They called the wind Mariah." No idea how if that's how it was really spelled.

 

#15:  Author: JackieJ, Location: Kingston upon Hull PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:16 pm

In the Paint your Wagon song it's definitely spelt Maria, but pronounced the old way to rhyme with 'fire'. I know, we were forced to sing it last concert (well, the men were, I tend not to sing tenor at Dagger Lane!).

One thing that confuses me is that we don't hear of Maria being a prefect before the school moves to Guernsey. Why was she made HG when there were other prefects (Polly Heriot) who'd already had the responsibility of prefectship?

Of course, I may be completely mis-remembering Exile, so if I am, please feel free to ignore the above paragraph Rolling Eyes

JackieJ

 

#16:  Author: Polly, Location: Essex PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:09 pm

Mar-eye-a is the old-fashioned version, especially during the Victorian period. Maria aitken (the actress) pronounces it that way. Mar-ee-a seems to have superceded it in general, though.

 

#17:  Author: joelle, Location: lancashire, england PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:27 pm

slightly ot on the name thing but i used to know an elderly lady who called marie pronounced "marry" wonder if it was somehting similar to that?

 

#18:  Author: LizB, Location: Oxon, England PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:49 pm

One of my aunts-in-law is Marie pronounced 'Marry'. I thought maybe it was a Yorkshire thing?

Liz

 

#19:  Author: Kat, Location: Swansea PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:19 pm

My friend's mum pronounces her 'Marie' as marry... I found it really odd at first, having never come across it before, but now I've got used to it, I quite like it as a less usual name Smile

 

#20:  Author: Eilidh, Location: Macclesfield PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:21 am

My friend also pronounces her Marie as Marry, and I have to admit that in my head that's how I've always pronouced Marie von Eschenau.

I always said Mar-ee-a though.

 

#21:  Author: Susan, Location: Carlisle PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:11 am

I also know 3 people called Marie who pronounce it Marry!

 

#22:  Author: Joey, Location: Cambridge PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:12 am

My grandmother's name was Marie, pronounced Marry. She was half-Welsh, and her mother wanted to call her Mari but didn't think non-Welsh people would be able to cope with that. Most people pronounced it Mar-ee, though (first syllable rhyming with far).

 

#23:  Author: francesn, Location: away with the faeries PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:23 am

How odd! I have 3 Welsh friends, all called Mari (pronounced MAR-ee).

Back to Maria Marani - I for one was glad when EBD reintroduced her, even though it was as Joey's Mothers Help (Sorry - as picky about the word nanny as Kat is about England/Wales). It was a very clever way to bring her back although I did get irritated that EBD married her off a few books later!

 

#24:  Author: Chair, Location: Rochester, Kent, England PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:21 pm

JackieJ wrote:
One thing that confuses me is that we don't hear of Maria being a prefect before the school moves to Guernsey. Why was she made HG when there were other prefects (Polly Heriot) who'd already had the responsibility of prefectship?JackieJ


Maybe the reason Maria becomes Head Girl without being a prefect is because the school had to close for a year when everyone fled to Guernsey before they could reopen the school.

 

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