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#1: Jem Russell Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:22 pm

As Rachael's away I've started this one, so, thoughts anyone? Was he the best thing that could have happened to Madge? Did he stifle her or allow her to grow? What of his relationship with Joey?

#2: Author: jennifer, Location: Sunny California

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:42 pm

My view of Jem is somewhat coloured by looking at him by modern standards. I think perhaps EBD designed him to be a good catch by the standards of her day - he's a *doctor*, and a prominent one, he's masterful, good looking, affectionate to his wife (in a somewhat autocratic way), and able to take charge of things and solve problems. Actuallly, their family life strikes me as somewhat Victorian, or at least pre-WWI - Jem is the head of household, whose responsibilities are earning the money to support the family and making important decisions. He only interacts with the family when he's acting as disciplinarian, or laying down the law, and then no one is to question him. Madge's respnsibilities are taking care of the children, managing the household, and supporting Jem in his responsibilities as the Great Dr Russell, and later as Sir Jem. I'm guessing there would be a fair amount of gracious entertaining, plus other duties expected of Lady Russell, as well as all the travelling. They have nursery help for the children, a maid for the house, and a private secretary for Jem, and pack their kids off to boarding school at the earliest opportunity. Joey actually takes his addition to the family fairly well. It's basically been her and Madge, and sometimes Dick. Suddenly, she's landed with a brother in law, who acts as if he were a stepfather, and takes over from Madge in terms of assuming responsibility for Joey. After they marry, it's his word that's law, rather than Madge's. Most fourteen year olds wouldn't take that well.!

#3: Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:23 pm

I tend to agree with Jennifer, especially as we are looking at him from modern eyes. I have to say, though, that EBD was writing when the role of the 'head of the household' was to earn the living for the whole household and Madge's withdrawal from a breadwinning role was normal for the times. Certainly, pre WWII the woman's role was the home and family, unless the husband couldn't earn enough to support them and she would have been bucking the trend to continue working, especially after David's arrival. There are odd traces of a more human Jem. He is the person who set Joey on her writing career and his visit to Garnham in Rescue (rather fresh in my mind at the moment) portrays a much more human side. H'mm ..... Down, Bunny, down! I also think the medical profession in general had a much more autocratic attitude to ordinary folk until very recently and he probably reflects that as well.

#4: Author: Susan, Location: Carlisle

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:43 am

I tend to agree with both Jennifer and Pat. Jem was written as a stereotype of his time. Given the way Jo rebelled against Madge at times I am surprised she never did it more with Jem. She seems to accept so cheerfully. I wonder if EBD would have married Madge off so quickly to someone like Jem if she had realised the series would last so long?

#5: Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:32 pm

Susan wrote:

I wonder if EBD would have married Madge off so quickly to someone like Jem if she had realised the series would last so long?

I've wondered that too. I wonder at what point she realised it was going to run and run and if she was ever tempted to finish it off. I know she was earning her living by writing but she did write other books and I can imagine she got stuck for something new to say in the end.

#6: Author: Dawn, Location: Leeds, West Yorks

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:08 pm

patmac wrote:

I know she was earning her living by writing but she did write other books and I can imagine she got stuck for something new to say in the end.

Wonder what gave you that impression Patmac? Wink

#7: Author: Pado, Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:55 pm

Jem, like all the males in the series, is a fairly peripheral character who is drawn pretty two-dimensionally. While he's likeable enough at the start - such a nice coincidence that he keeps appearing just as Madge and/or Jo requires rescue - I find myself becoming more annoyed with him as the series continues. The *nerve* of the man to submit Jo's story to a competition, without permission from either Jo or Madge, for instance!

#8: Author: Laura, Location: London (ish)

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:50 pm

Generally he's too busy laying down the law to be particularly likeable - there's one point at which someone somewhere is recounting how when Madge broke the ceiling somewhere (look how well i remember details!) he laughed himself stupid, and there are several other episodes like that - where he generally appears likable. At the same time - and very off topic - I never could understand the reasoning behind the 'Oh, you've been laughing for about 20 seconds now - stop or I must throw this glass of ice cold water over you head to prevent any further revelling in amusement!' What on earth was so wrong with laughing anyway? Confused

Jem in the early books infuriates me - every time anything goes wrong he appears, decidedly unrealistically, on the spot. As far as I can see (although living very much in the 21st century I'm utterly biased) he restricted Madge's growth as a character and changed her personality very speedily from a brave, lively, and generally vivid character to someone submissive and seemingly rather weak (excepting the wonderful interview with Miss Bubb).

#9: Author: LizB, Location: Oxon, England

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:14 pm

Jem's a character of strange contrasts. He's sometimes really fun and can be joked around with. He's a doctor who cares a lot for his patients, and often their families. He was a surrogate father to Robin while her dad was in Russia and also after he'd died, but he's also the father who wouldn't look at Sybil for days after she'd accidentally scalded Josette when she wasn't being properly supervised. He's an important person in the medical world, becoming increasingly important and obviously has contacts all over the place. When he first starts the San and marries Madge he takes an interest in the school - I imagine he was quite involved in the idea and setting up of the Annexe - and in Exile he is the driving force behind the school moving first up to the Sonnalpe to be safer and then out of Austria. I'm not sure about Guernsey, but once the school gets to England, he seems to delegate the 'chief doctor to the school' role to Jack Maynard, it's almost like he and Madge bow out of involvement in the school together, leaving one to wonder whether Madge would have liked to be more involved, but was not encouraged to be, or whether she wanted to step down and make way for Jo to be the most important person. It was rather out of order for him to submit Jo's story without asking, and another occassion he persuaded Madge to read some of Jo's Elsie book when it had been meant for her eyes only. Maybe that's where Jo learnt her interfering habits and disregard for confidentiality from! On the whole, I think he's basically a good man though, but I feel that EBD (like Enid Blyton) doesn't write many strong adult male characters, maybe because of the lack of father in her life, which could be why he tends to appear, do something autocratic and then disappear until the next time, when 'in reality' he could well have been around a lot more of the time. Liz *just pouring out from my brain in any order so it may not make sense*

#10: Author: jennifer, Location: Sunny California

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:34 pm

Doctors seem to have a great deal of general power in EBDland. I think the one that got me was when Jack vetos travelling for Stacie Benson in one of the later Swiss books - he's not her physicican, he's a *TB* specialist, not a specialist in old back injuries, and his connection to her is that she's his houseguest. But nobody blinks at the idea that he could make decisions affecting her professional life, and have the power to insist she follow his advice. At this point, she's a respected classical scholar who's been managing her own life for the past 20 years.

#11: Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:45 pm

jennifer wrote:

I spent the best part of 2 yrs, on and off, in a TB san (orthopoedic ward), not with TB but with a still undefined bone disease. This was in the 1950's and between 1953 when I first went in and 1957 when I was discharged for the last time, the focus changed from TB to Polio to Rheumatoid Arthritis so I always assumed that the San changed it's focus during that period as real sanatoria did. Certainly in the 1950's, doctors were still gods in their own universe so I never, really questioned the attitude till much later. The last time I consulted an orthopoedic specialist in the 1980's, when degenerative changes started to show, I was faced with a 'young lad' who looked at the Xrays and commented "Who on earth did this. It's a mess." I got off the bed and told him that it was state of the art when the operation was performed which was long before he was born and walked out and have never been back. Some things never change. Confused

#12: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:53 pm

Good for you, Pat! Bet that surprised him! Laughing

#13: Author: Ruth, Location: Physically: Lincolnshire, England. Inwardly: The Scottish Highlands

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:30 am

I really like Jem Russell - and I am not looking at him through the same kind of modern eyes as everyone else. I like the manners and customs of the olden days when the husband was the head of the house and his word was law and wife and children obeyed him unquestionly. I find him interesting, fun and not in the least autocratic. Madge loves him, his children look up to him. Joey and the Robin adore him as a brother in law and Jack Maynard thinks a lot of him (you can tell by Jem's reaction when it is believed that Jack is drowned!!!) I don't think there is anything wrong in the way Jem treated Sybil, at all! It showed the horrible little wretch that no-one was going to pet her when she had been so disobedient!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#14: Author: Alex, Location: Hunts, UK

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:51 am

I think the thing that suprises me most about Jem is that most of the other main characters at that point have quite strong religious beliefs/spirituality and he never really demonstrates that to the same extent.

#15: Author: Honor, Location: London

Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:59 pm

I think that is one of the things that has always appealed to me about Jem - he isn't quite so pi as all the others.

#16: Author: Ellie, Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:42 pm

On the whole, I rather like Jem, which probably doesn't come as a surprise to some of you Wink

Yes, he is very much a dominant male, but as been mentioned before, he is very much a product of his time, annd his upbringing - and in some ways he isn't that much different to the stock Mills and Boon hero, in that he sweeps the heroine away from real life and takes are of her for the rest of her days. (Fictional gender stereotypes were part of my degree course - honest) I think, although others will probably disagree, that he provided Madge with the security she wanted - yes, she did start the school, but that was due to family's financial needs rather than because she had a burning ambition to do so. If the trustee had not lost the family fortune her life would most probably have developed along the same lines as it did post marriage. I have to say, that I didn't care too much for Jem's attitude to the Balbini twins after the death of their mother, he has an excuse, of sorts, in that they had taken away his small daughter, and no doubt that had an affect on his actions, but he should have been adult enough to control himself. I do get the impression though, that underneath the 'stiff upper lip' that he was expected to show the world, he was fairly emotional. He certainly showed that side of himself when he heard that Jack had been drowned - if I remember correctly, Madge told him that he had to pull himself together and go to Joey. Incidentally, I think someone worked out that he was born in 1890 something - which surely must have made him the right age to have served in WW1 - but I don't recall seeing any mention of the war in any of the books, does anyone else know anything different?

#17: Author: JackieJ, Location: Kingston upon Hull

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:03 pm

What puzzles me is why is he referred to as Mr James Russell in School at, and is then known thereafter as Dr Russell? Surely he'd already qualified when we first encounter him, and so should have been down as a Dr on his business card (I seem to recall him producing one at one point). But if he'd been a sufficiently senior doctor to have reverted to being a Mr (as Consultants do nowadays, although I don't know if there was a similar system back then) then surely he wouldn't have gone back to being a Dr after attaining that level. Any ideas anyone (if you can actually make sense of this!) JackieJ

#18: Author: Lesley, Location: Allhallows, Kent

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:15 pm

Only surgeons revert to Mr - a holdover from when a surgeon wasn't considered to be a proper doctor, but was more likely a barber! (Well they had all those sharp instruments!) Nowadays, once a surgeon has passed all the relevant exams he reverts to Mr. As to why Jem - certainly a physician, and therefore remaining a Dr even at Consultant level - would be known as Mr - Shrug! EBDism?? Laughing

Last edited by Lesley on Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

#19: Author: Nicci, Location: UK

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:02 pm

I imagine that the Doctor bit was probably more of a nickname given by the school girls and staff, and perhaps within medicine people knew him as Mr. Afterall, in the early days he was very much in the centre of the school's health like a GP would be, so it probably seemed right to call him Dr. Anyway, that's my theory.

#20: Author: Honor, Location: London

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:03 pm

Going back to the when was Jem born thing, Has anyone noticed that EBD seems to age him considerably? He is mentioned as being 8 years older than Dr Mensch when they are chasing after the Balbini twins and in School Gotfried is said to be about 18/19 which makes Jem only about 27 at the most in School (ie 3 years older than Madge). He is then said to be about 35 when Jo is talking about Margot Venables when they have just found her (Frieda asks how old Mrs Venables is in the hardback version and Jo says about 38, 3 years older than Jem) so he is already aging quickly. Then in Jo to the Rescue he is said to be 48. I know the poor bloke has had a lot to deal with what with Jo's constant near death experiences, a bunch of girls to look after, a massive inherited family and a business but he shouldn't be aging that rapidly. Question

Does this make sense or have I got it wrong?

#21: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:52 pm

Honor wrote:

Has anyone noticed that EBD seems to age him considerably? He is mentioned as being 8 years older than Dr Mensch when they are chasing after the Balbini twins and in School Gotfried is said to be about 18/19 which makes Jem only about 27 at the most in School (ie 3 years older than Madge). He is then said to be about 35 when Jo is talking about Margot Venables when they have just found her (Frieda asks how old Mrs Venables is in the hardback version and Jo says about 38, 3 years older than Jem) so he is already aging quickly.

I'm not sure these are quite so contradictory, whatever happens to Jem's age later. New House is five years on from School at, so Madge will be 30 that term, and EBD tells us Jem is 35 - an age gap of 5 years rather than the ~3 years suggested in School at. You could argue that it's actually Gottfried's age which is the EBDism. He's at Bonn university studying to be a doctor in School at, which could make him any age from ~18 to ~24. As we are told in Head Girl he is to join the San shortly, he should be well on the way to qualifying in School at, rather than the 18/19 EBD says he is. If we assume he's 21 rather than 18, Jem would be 29 - i.e. 4/5 years older than Madge (she is 25 during the first summer term). If Gottfried really is 18/19, he must qualify as a practising doctor in only three or four years - would this have been possible in 1925/6? Caroline.

#22: Author: Honor, Location: London

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:07 pm

I see what you mean. I've always thought that they would qualify at about 24/25 at the earliest. It's weird cos you get Gottfried joining the San straight out of uni (and you could assume Jack would have done something fairly similar) so you have this organisation being run by doctors in their twenties or early thirties who are all meant to be TB specialists. Makes you wonder what counted as a specialist in those days!

#23: Author: Caroline, Location: Manchester

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:34 pm

Honor wrote:

I wonder how 'specialist' any of them were apart from Jem. Whenever there's a tricky case, they seem to call in an outside expert - think of when Robin starts to show TB symptoms in And Jo. If we assume Jem starts the San when he's, what, 32, then he could have had 7/8 years or so to gain expertise in the field after qualifying - maybe he did a PhD researching TB treatments after gaining his Medical degree (thus explaining why he's both Mr and Dr Wink

) - or worked under one of the 'great doctors' in the field in England, before inheriting enough money to set up his own sanatorium. Or maybe he was a complete quack, and had everyone fooled! After all, what treatments *were* there for TB before WWII and drug therapies? Bed rest, mountain air, paliatives - that's it really. How much medical training would you need? And it's a private san in a foreign country - he wouldn't necessarily have to satisfy any authorities of his competance... Caroline.

#24: Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:14 pm

I know this topic hasn't been aired for a while but when Jem sends Joey's story to a competition and hew wins second prize, EBD states that the reply is addressed c/o James Russel FRCS. That presumably means he was a surgeon, not a physician.

*Guess who had to look up a whole load of stuff about Jem?*

#25: Author: Laura, Location: London (ish)

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:24 pm

*voting for complete quack* - Now there's a drabble just asking to be written! *hint hint* Very Happy

#26: Author: Vikki, Location: Sitting on an iceberg, freezing to death!!!

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:56 pm

patmac wrote:

And surely in that case he would have been MR Russell, not DR Russell?

#27: Author: patmac, Location: Yorkshire England

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:32 pm

I think someone (sorry, too lazy to go back and see who Confused

) suggested that the girls called him Dr Jem, because he was (sort of) their school doctor.

My memories of TB treatment in the 50s is that the surgeons also prescribed and advised on non invasive treatment, taking surgery as the last option. so a consultant would be much more of a generalist than we get today.

Perhaps a more holistic approach?

Or EBD didn't know the difference anyway Wink

#28: Author: KB, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:02 pm

patmac wrote:

I think someone (sorry, too lazy to go back and see who Confused

) suggested that the girls called him Dr Jem, because he was (sort of) their school doctor.

I think that was more of an issue after his knighthood to explain why they didn't call him Sir Jem.

#29: Author: Róisín, Location: Galway, Eire

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:28 am

Jem is undeniably autocratic but this is undermined quite a few times by EBD. One that sticks out to me is in And Jo when the issue of whether the Tyrol is in an earthquake zone is raised. Jem assures Madge that the Tyrol is right out of the zone and Madge comfortably believes him. Jo, on the other hand, has read the history of the place and tells Madge that there have previously been two earthquakes there. Interestingly, neither of them point this out to Jem and he is left to believe that he is absolutely right. I think this happened to him quite a lot, and was one of the factors leading to his autocratic nature.

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