Betty Wynne-Davis and Elizabeth Arnett
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#1: Betty Wynne-Davis and Elizabeth Arnett Author: Rachael PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:10 pm


"Elizabeth thinks of evil things to do and Betty does them ... with bells on"

(Apologies if misquoted but you know what I mean!!)

Please discuss this wicked duo here:

 


#2:  Author: BuntyLocation: London PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:17 pm


I find them rather refreshing, as genuinely cynical subversives. Their utter lack of team spirit or loyalty to the school has a ring of truth to it - eg their absence of sense of disgrace when threatened with having to report to Miss Annersley over the roof-garden theatricals: they only care about the logistics of a punishment. Everyone else at the Chalet School is so passionately loyal to the institution (as, of course, am I, I add hastily...)

 


#3:  Author: jenniferLocation: Sunny California PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:36 pm


It's interesting to see them develop. They're believable bad girls at the beginning, I agree that it's nice to see someone who doesn't become insanely loyal to the school within a term, and you wouldn't necessarily expect someone who's transferred unexpectedly to a new school from one with laxer discipline and no language requirements to fit in easily. Their growing apart is nice to watch to - Betty is definitely a nasty piece of work in Highland Twins, but you can see some of where her bitterness is coming from, and how she got there. The other two unredeemable charactes, Thekla and Diana Skelton, are introduced as full blown villians, and so are less sympathetic characters.

One thing I always found difficult to understand in these books is the revererence in which the prefects were held, as it's not a system I grew up with. In my experience, a fourteen year old who is told by a seventeen year old to be quiet going down the stairs is not going to respond with instant obedience. Actually, in the system I grew up in, there was no structured peer discipline at all, even the lunch room supervision was done by adults. The closest I've seen was in elementary school, where once in a long while a grade 7 student (13 years old, and the highest class in the school) would be asked to keep an eye on a younger class if the teacher had to leave for a meeting or something.


It is relatively unusual to see major characters where it's not a "nice naughtiness". I wonder if we could disect the EBD hierarchy of naughtiness, i.e. what sort of behavior/attitude combinations are regarded as worse than others.

Hmmm, I think I'll go start a thread over in Anything Else on this.

 


#4:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:53 pm


The only thing I think could have added to the portrayal of Betty would be if we had heard of Mr Irons and Betty's situation before, as that would have given the reader a little sympathy towards her. In HT, she is an out-and-out bully to me, but I think if I had seen something of her home life, I'd have been more willing to give her a bit of a break.

 


#5:  Author: AnnLocation: Newcastle upon Tyne, England PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:19 am


I do like the fact that Elizabeth reforms without suffering some sort of injury or similar personal crisis. She simply grows up and starts to look at the world in a different light. It's much more plausible than the abrupt character changes we see in many of the other books (Juliet, Corney, Eustacia, etc,)

 


#6:  Author: francesnLocation: away with the faeries PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:50 pm


I always thought it was a shame the way the school treated Betty. She was a nasty piece of work in the end, but the Prefects always had an "oh it's those two" attitude in the beginning, and carried on regardless. With a bit of judicious handling Betty could have turned out different. Also St Scholastika had a lot to answer for in the way that it dealt with her - had she been at the CS from the beginning she may have been very different.

Elizabeth I find very believable, and I think it's a tremendous shame we don't see more of her/that she was cut from the pbs, these being the only books I have to base my judgment on.

 


#7:  Author: JustJenLocation: waiting for a bus PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:51 pm


I always felt a bit sorry Betty. She had no home life what so ever to speak of. She was packed off the boarding shcool when she was 5 years and spent most of her holidays at school.. Mr. Irons didn't care about her and her mother's friends were in India which we all know is no place for a English child (witness all the Bettany kids!)
The only reason any paid any attention to her was when she acted up. I also wonder what happened to her between Goes to It and Highland twins.

 


#8:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:43 pm


Have you read Robin, Jen? Caroline does a good job of filling in one of those terms. I don't think EBD could have written that, though, as she would have found it almost impossible not to reform Betty.

 


#9:  Author: JustJenLocation: waiting for a bus PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:39 pm


Haven't read Robin since I can't afford to buy the books (I'm in Canada) and I can't find a transcript either. Can you tell me what happens to Betty? PM me if you can.

Jenn

 


#10:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:59 pm


Have you discovered the Transcripts site, Jen? Robin is up there in all its shiny glory!

 


#11:  Author: JustJenLocation: waiting for a bus PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:23 pm


KB, I just went ovet to the site and dl Robin. Hioefully I get a chance to read by Monday.

 


#12:  Author: MiriamLocation: Jerusalem, Israel PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:38 pm


Ann wrote:
I do like the fact that Elizabeth reforms without suffering some sort of injury or similar personal crisis. She simply grows up and starts to look at the world in a different light. It's much more plausible than the abrupt character changes we see in many of the other books (Juliet, Corney, Eustacia, etc,)


I think the stresses of the war were considered to be enough of a catalyst to spark Elizabeths reformation. A lot of girls in the war books comment on how much the strains they were dealing with on a daily basis have caused them to grow up.

We also see the first sign of hr new attitude on the nifght of the air raid. The war in a genral sense has caused the formation of this attitude, but it is this particular situation, where they are potentially in very close contact with the war, which is causing the more noticable aspect of it.

This does leave open the question of wwhy it doesn't have some similar kind of effect on Betty. My only understanding of that is that she had such a hard home life that she was used to shrugging off feelings of strain, rather than reacting to them. It took a much stronger and more personal encounter with the war tro have an effect on her. Maybe if she had had to flee from Austria over the mountains that would havw reformed her...

 


#13:  Author: KBLocation: Melbourne, Australia PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:25 pm


Those are some good points, Miriam. The issue with the air raid is particularly interesting, although I'm not 100% sure I agree with your suggestion that changes began on that night. I think it's more likely that Elizabeth had, as GTI says, been 'beginning to think for herself' and EBD says that she had begun to develop this affection. I think it's likely she was frightened for Gillian and that crystalised her feelings into something she could realise.

My own opinion on Betty's change is two-fold. She is younger, both physically and emotionally, so she sees Elizabeth growing up before she begins to do so herself. Because of this she is aware of any changes in herself. She would also be unlikely to nurse any feelings for others as she has never had to feel that way about anyone else, whereas presumably Elizabeth has other family members that she cares for and loves.

 




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